Alright lets then work off of this concept.
The game phase is split into several steps. All steps are taken by each player separately, then the next, etc.
Draw
Establish Enemies
Attack enemies
Determine Rewards
Fight Players?
In order to make this progress effectively then, a few things need to be established.
1: Drawing
The quantity draw, under what conditions it is drawn. The less of a hand size and the more consistently drawn, the more deck building matters. The greater a hand size and the more erratically drawn, the more tactics matter.
2: Establishing Enemies
How are enemies chosen? I recommend the double-card idea. Virii are categorized as both rewards and the virus that drops them. They can be placed in three different tiers and should be balanced accordingly. Attempting to classify them more finely will make things awkward with selection. The maximum total tiers of virii in a wave is equal to the current turn number.
3: Attacking Enemies
Each turn, players gain the ability to attack the virii that their opponent placed. f a player defeats all of the virii on the board, he may play from his hand a chip of one half the tier of all the virii defeated. Virii are combated by the use of Navi abilities and Chip cards. Different Navis have different attributes which can be explained later. Chip cards work as they might be expected. There is no control of the Virii once they have been placed. They automatically attack at the end of the turn for the specified damage (or not if specified. Mets for example might be immune to damage and not attack for their first turn.) The point here is that combat is streamlined and does not take too long. If we get too bogged down with rules complications the system will be impractical.
4: Determine Rewards
Rewards are equal to one half the total enemy-tiers defeated this turn, or just one-half the current turn if all enemies are defeated. Virii will likely be a limited resource if this game is to have a solid strategic element and it will be difficult to have a full set every time this means there will be strategy about when to place, and I dont believe depriving should be a valid tactics itself. Zenny counters are given for every half left left over during a fight, including the remainder if a player chooses not to play a chip or plays one of a lower tier than is available.
*Reminder Text
Clearly there needs to be a reward for completing, otherwise it will just be ideal to starve your opponent. For this reason I prefer the solution of just giving turn/2 every turn.
5: Fight Players?
Currently you would fight players like you fight virii. The conditions for it, as it stands, are fairly simple. When one player runs out of cards from his deck, he may initiate a fight. When both run out, it begins regardless.
Later I will detail concepts for numbers on cards and uses of zenny (mostly upgrading).
RERN Card Game Dev. Room
last edited by
Hmm...
What if it'd go like...
Draw phase:
First you draw your cards, these will be the chips your navi can use (This means that if you stuck your deck full of shitty reward virii, you'll be likely to draw shitty yourself).
Encounter Phase:
First, both you and your opponent flip your top card from the deck; this card will be your "base" encounter. The level will determine the order of future flips (the one who has the higher level card will go first) In case of draw, you flip again (for this reason I think there should be at least 5 levels, maybe more, so that draws are not common... or just use a coin instead of a second flip). Then the one who has the higher level encounter has a three way choice. He can:
- Flip a card and add it to his own encounter
- Flip a card and add it to the encounter of his opponent
- End the encounter phase
Then it's the other player's turn to do the same. Encounter tops at 3 virii's each, so they will be forced to stop when both players reach that limit (this part could be altered; in fact, maybe it would be better if it was turn/number of virus).
Battle Phase:
The player with the higher total level encounter goes first, controlling his own navi, the other player controls the virii, then they switch. Viriis killed are put into the killer's hand to be used as chips. If the navi is deleted, the player has to (randomly) discard a number of cards from his hands, equal to the number of virii remaining (EJO :P) Exact mechanics of battle come later.
Encounter and battle phase repeat until...
Showdown:
Actually, this is the part where I don't know what to do. I really don't like the number of repeats predetermined... My crazy idea would be that the encounter deck has not just virii, but event cards, such as mistery data, vendors, missions etc... and it would also have "SHOWDOWN IN ***!" cards, that force the navis to do battle at a certain location ("SHODOWN IN UNDERNET!"), which gives negatives/bonuses to certain things. The winner is who wins X showdowns first.
If events/non battle stuff sticks, they could be played in the encounter phase instead of flipping the top card. Also, you could counter events by discarding an event of the same type from your hand...
If there is interest in the idea, I'll elaborate further on balance and the meta behind it
What if it'd go like...
Draw phase:
First you draw your cards, these will be the chips your navi can use (This means that if you stuck your deck full of shitty reward virii, you'll be likely to draw shitty yourself).
Encounter Phase:
First, both you and your opponent flip your top card from the deck; this card will be your "base" encounter. The level will determine the order of future flips (the one who has the higher level card will go first) In case of draw, you flip again (for this reason I think there should be at least 5 levels, maybe more, so that draws are not common... or just use a coin instead of a second flip). Then the one who has the higher level encounter has a three way choice. He can:
- Flip a card and add it to his own encounter
- Flip a card and add it to the encounter of his opponent
- End the encounter phase
Then it's the other player's turn to do the same. Encounter tops at 3 virii's each, so they will be forced to stop when both players reach that limit (this part could be altered; in fact, maybe it would be better if it was turn/number of virus).
Battle Phase:
The player with the higher total level encounter goes first, controlling his own navi, the other player controls the virii, then they switch. Viriis killed are put into the killer's hand to be used as chips. If the navi is deleted, the player has to (randomly) discard a number of cards from his hands, equal to the number of virii remaining (EJO :P) Exact mechanics of battle come later.
Encounter and battle phase repeat until...
Showdown:
Actually, this is the part where I don't know what to do. I really don't like the number of repeats predetermined... My crazy idea would be that the encounter deck has not just virii, but event cards, such as mistery data, vendors, missions etc... and it would also have "SHOWDOWN IN ***!" cards, that force the navis to do battle at a certain location ("SHODOWN IN UNDERNET!"), which gives negatives/bonuses to certain things. The winner is who wins X showdowns first.
If events/non battle stuff sticks, they could be played in the encounter phase instead of flipping the top card. Also, you could counter events by discarding an event of the same type from your hand...
If there is interest in the idea, I'll elaborate further on balance and the meta behind it
last edited by
Quote (Leon)
I miss triple triad from FF8 >_>;
Thanks for resurrecting the pain q_q
: D
Whhyyy did you bring up the Triad, you bastard?!
Just when the wounds were almost sealed, you come along and tear them open again...
ToT
last edited by
Quote (SpaceMonkeySteve)
Quote (Leon)
I miss triple triad from FF8 >_>;
Thanks for resurrecting the pain q_q
: D
Whhyyy did you bring up the Triad, you bastard?!
Just when the wounds were almost sealed, you come along and tear them open again...
ToT
SPEAK FOR YOURSELF STEVE! I LOVED TT from FF8!
last edited by
I think there should be a class of card that is basically like a spell/event/instant. Most tcg/ccgs have them and I think they're integral to making a game incorporate strategies and such.
If this would be implemented, there are a two things that I think should be taken into consideration:
-Theme (would these cards use serious terminology from the mmbn game, in-game silliness, or use terms like 'moderator' and 'forum'?)
-Cost (would there be some limiting resource that prevents someone from playing all of these cards from their hand)
If this would be implemented, there are a two things that I think should be taken into consideration:
-Theme (would these cards use serious terminology from the mmbn game, in-game silliness, or use terms like 'moderator' and 'forum'?)
-Cost (would there be some limiting resource that prevents someone from playing all of these cards from their hand)
last edited by
Okay, I'm finally getting around to posting just a bit of the change I talked to RoboTek in the chat about yesterday. I still need to talk to him again when I get a chance to confirm some things, but one pivotal thing that's been changed is that we came up with a way that viruses could be combined with chips and the two decks, enemy and resource, could be merged into one. Essentially, his idea has viruses and the related chips organized into three tiers. Rather than "waves," as I'd planned, each round players would have a hand and would play some of the cards from it to fill "tiers" of enemies available. Round 1 would allow you to play one tier of virus for the enemy to face, 2 for round 2, and so forth. The rest of the cards in your hand not used to form these enemy tiers could be kept as chips for your Navi to use as a resource. Defeating enemies would not give you their respective chip, instead yielding access to prizes formed by the player's deck. While the exact mechanics of a lot of this are fuzzy to me (I talked to him all about it yesterday then backspaced and lost the conversation, then dove into statics homework and spazzed out entirely), this gives you a bit of an idea of a change that I'm now going to be including as an integral part of the system unless I get a concept to convince me otherwise.
As for your latest mentioned point, chips DO function a bit as the "spells" we're speaking of here, but I think you have a bit of a point that there should probably be additional resources more along the idea of the "event" cards a lot of games have. Another concern Bomber mentioned in the chat is the inclusion of operators. While I hadn't thought these were necessary at first, there seems to be some amount of demand for their inclusion. One idea that occured to me is that we could have "Tactic" and "Event" cards included in the game (exactly how to be determined later if this idea sounds good). "Tactics" could include things such as player strategies, like "Cover," allowing a player to make additional use of object chips placed, or things that we take to be natural Navi tactics, like "Submerge," allowing an Aqua Navi to submerge in water or a Fire Navi to submerge in lava. "Event" cards could be more like moderator events. In particular, I was thinking these could effect your opponent's field during the virus-busting stage to make things more difficult for him. These could include things such as a terrain change or imbuing a virus with "break" properties of some sort. The Operator could be included in this new setup as a card included in the deck that determines what chips and tactics you start out with: these could be specified at the bottom of the card, and we might expect to see someone like Rania drawing close-range tactics or someone like Don starting with things integral to forming the Dimension-mobile of RE:CN notoriety. They could also provide some sort of static bonuses.
In any case, this latter section is a batch of fresh ideas I just cooked up and thus have not discussed with anyone. Please give me any feedback up or down on them and mention if you have a good idea of how they could be implemented. Also, I'll try and get more specific on the changes going on in that first section when I get a chance to hammer it out.
As for your latest mentioned point, chips DO function a bit as the "spells" we're speaking of here, but I think you have a bit of a point that there should probably be additional resources more along the idea of the "event" cards a lot of games have. Another concern Bomber mentioned in the chat is the inclusion of operators. While I hadn't thought these were necessary at first, there seems to be some amount of demand for their inclusion. One idea that occured to me is that we could have "Tactic" and "Event" cards included in the game (exactly how to be determined later if this idea sounds good). "Tactics" could include things such as player strategies, like "Cover," allowing a player to make additional use of object chips placed, or things that we take to be natural Navi tactics, like "Submerge," allowing an Aqua Navi to submerge in water or a Fire Navi to submerge in lava. "Event" cards could be more like moderator events. In particular, I was thinking these could effect your opponent's field during the virus-busting stage to make things more difficult for him. These could include things such as a terrain change or imbuing a virus with "break" properties of some sort. The Operator could be included in this new setup as a card included in the deck that determines what chips and tactics you start out with: these could be specified at the bottom of the card, and we might expect to see someone like Rania drawing close-range tactics or someone like Don starting with things integral to forming the Dimension-mobile of RE:CN notoriety. They could also provide some sort of static bonuses.
In any case, this latter section is a batch of fresh ideas I just cooked up and thus have not discussed with anyone. Please give me any feedback up or down on them and mention if you have a good idea of how they could be implemented. Also, I'll try and get more specific on the changes going on in that first section when I get a chance to hammer it out.
last edited by
hi, robo made me type up this old memory, but I couldn't write it in paragraph form.
if you can understand this, you get an award...
Niax's RM:RN TCG
Card Types:
Navi
Chips
Virus
Areas
Sig attacks
Style:
Summon(MtG, yugioh)
Deck size:
60 — 100
Cost:
Bandwidth - 30
Life:
Server — 20 points
Gameplay points:
- Each card has a certain bandwidth cost, showing the power of a card(like the stars in yugioh). You cannot go over your server's bandwidth in summoning virus or navis.
- Viruses have a set amount of damage that can be increased only by field cards. This gives them a lower bandwidth cost than navi's.
- Navi's gain power from chip cards field cards, and each navi has their own sig effect cards. Because of their greater strength, one navi could have the same bandwidth cost as several viruses, and their base attack will always be 1.
- Chip cards can be equipped to navis, but each chip has a certain number of turns it can be used for. Most chips can only be used for 1 turn, but some can be used to 2 or 4 turns. These also override the navi's damage
- Sigcards can be used once, and only on the specific navi that the card specifies (djinni can't use Voids "dagger torrent")
- Areas are cards that will give strengths and weaknesses to certain elements and can cause other effects. Each player can have a different area, allowing for more strategy with area cards. (such as boosting a fire card from your side, then hitting the grass side for more damage)
- The winner is decided when you crash an opponent's server, which is done by lowering his points to 0.
- Cards have attack/hp stats, which every time a card is attacked the hp are lowered and stay down unless healed. So a metool would look like 1/ 4, and a navi with a cannon would be 4/ 10.
- Each turn you can play 1/ draw 1 card.
- You can play 1 navi on top of another, boosting hp, attack, and useable sigs by both navis. They can also attack 2 times each turn, but the "placed" navi is removed at the end of 3 turns and put in the discard pile. The bottom navi's bandwidth is also increased by half of the "placed" navi's cost.
if you can understand this, you get an award...
Niax's RM:RN TCG
Card Types:
Navi
Chips
Virus
Areas
Sig attacks
Style:
Summon(MtG, yugioh)
Deck size:
60 — 100
Cost:
Bandwidth - 30
Life:
Server — 20 points
Gameplay points:
- Each card has a certain bandwidth cost, showing the power of a card(like the stars in yugioh). You cannot go over your server's bandwidth in summoning virus or navis.
- Viruses have a set amount of damage that can be increased only by field cards. This gives them a lower bandwidth cost than navi's.
- Navi's gain power from chip cards field cards, and each navi has their own sig effect cards. Because of their greater strength, one navi could have the same bandwidth cost as several viruses, and their base attack will always be 1.
- Chip cards can be equipped to navis, but each chip has a certain number of turns it can be used for. Most chips can only be used for 1 turn, but some can be used to 2 or 4 turns. These also override the navi's damage
- Sigcards can be used once, and only on the specific navi that the card specifies (djinni can't use Voids "dagger torrent")
- Areas are cards that will give strengths and weaknesses to certain elements and can cause other effects. Each player can have a different area, allowing for more strategy with area cards. (such as boosting a fire card from your side, then hitting the grass side for more damage)
- The winner is decided when you crash an opponent's server, which is done by lowering his points to 0.
- Cards have attack/hp stats, which every time a card is attacked the hp are lowered and stay down unless healed. So a metool would look like 1/ 4, and a navi with a cannon would be 4/ 10.
- Each turn you can play 1/ draw 1 card.
- You can play 1 navi on top of another, boosting hp, attack, and useable sigs by both navis. They can also attack 2 times each turn, but the "placed" navi is removed at the end of 3 turns and put in the discard pile. The bottom navi's bandwidth is also increased by half of the "placed" navi's cost.
last edited by
Interesting, I will be designing a full version of mine later.
Thanks Void.. err.. Niax
Thanks Void.. err.. Niax
last edited by
Just so you know, Heat has more ideas on, at least, operators. He won't be around to post them until later today.
Thanks for everyone's input on the game.
Thanks for everyone's input on the game.
last edited by
Adding to what I said earlier regarding Operators, I was thinking what I might do is have Operator types. These could be decided on later, but could be as specific as "Violent" and "Enthusiastic" or as general as "Law, Neutral, Mafia." Total, however, there probably wouldn't be any more than six or so, whatever idea was decided on. Different Tactics would be specific to each type of operator, while some could be general and used by any operator. Not much of an update, but figured I'd throw it out there. Stuff I'd like to figure out in the future is perhaps cutting some numbers and so forth, and particularly prizes and upgrading for sigs.
I'd intended to talk to Robotek about some of that stuff, but according to his post he's working on a system of his own (regardless of whether it builds on this or not). As such, I'll try to continue work on my own according to the feedback I get.
Thanks for posting some systems, people. Concerning the idea you posted, Niax, it seems like a solid enough system that would be really simple to work with anyway. My main concern would be that I don't think it's the ideal setup, having Navis function nearly the same as the viruses and essentially be working side by side to attack some sort of system...? I suppose that the intrigue and strategy of the game could overcome the weak goal, though. It sounds like something I'd give a shot if it ends up getting developed.
I'd intended to talk to Robotek about some of that stuff, but according to his post he's working on a system of his own (regardless of whether it builds on this or not). As such, I'll try to continue work on my own according to the feedback I get.
Thanks for posting some systems, people. Concerning the idea you posted, Niax, it seems like a solid enough system that would be really simple to work with anyway. My main concern would be that I don't think it's the ideal setup, having Navis function nearly the same as the viruses and essentially be working side by side to attack some sort of system...? I suppose that the intrigue and strategy of the game could overcome the weak goal, though. It sounds like something I'd give a shot if it ends up getting developed.
last edited by
I actually just came up with another idea.
Scrapping the "virii don't always attack" thing that Heat disagreed with, I see why. A more, fast paced battle seems a tad bit better. Thought what we could do is give the mod.. a sort of resource that could be renamed better (Bandwith, data, etc. etc.) that he can use. Mods could use this to alter the area for players, one at a time or both, could use both of those techniques. The resources could also bring more enemies to battle, or enhance them, and pretty much everything bad in the book for the players. So then, the Mod can't go FULL OUT OMG UR GONNA DIEEEZZZZ (Which I think Twi will dislike not having that power xD) but they will still be able to dish out some things, and keep it fast-paced and the players on their feet. This would also get rid of the whole "pick crummy virii and not die" because the player himself would get bad chips, and then the mod could just say "It's your fault for trying to cheat the rules" and crush them.
With the resource system, mods could have weaker tier cards for little amounts of resources/data/bandwith/whatever to god tier cards for large amounts. So then you'd know if the mod isn't making many moves, he could be saving up for DE BANHAMMER. The Mod could maybe have "chance cards" that give him extra resources, subtract resources, maybe freeze him from movement, give him access to certain cards and such, so pretty much being a 50/50 thing.
Keep note, I was writing this while recovering from a small bit of writer's block.
That or just tired hands.
EDIT: Also, to Heat's post, with the Law Neutral Mafia system, isn't that alot like the DnD system, with characters being Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic? That being said, good idea. Maybe you could add in chips or other things that work better when you're more mafia, or good. Maybe even areas could work with this. Say when you're put in an undernet style stage, Mafia characters would work better there, but they wouldn't work as well in some place like Netopia or AC/DC.
Scrapping the "virii don't always attack" thing that Heat disagreed with, I see why. A more, fast paced battle seems a tad bit better. Thought what we could do is give the mod.. a sort of resource that could be renamed better (Bandwith, data, etc. etc.) that he can use. Mods could use this to alter the area for players, one at a time or both, could use both of those techniques. The resources could also bring more enemies to battle, or enhance them, and pretty much everything bad in the book for the players. So then, the Mod can't go FULL OUT OMG UR GONNA DIEEEZZZZ (Which I think Twi will dislike not having that power xD) but they will still be able to dish out some things, and keep it fast-paced and the players on their feet. This would also get rid of the whole "pick crummy virii and not die" because the player himself would get bad chips, and then the mod could just say "It's your fault for trying to cheat the rules" and crush them.
With the resource system, mods could have weaker tier cards for little amounts of resources/data/bandwith/whatever to god tier cards for large amounts. So then you'd know if the mod isn't making many moves, he could be saving up for DE BANHAMMER. The Mod could maybe have "chance cards" that give him extra resources, subtract resources, maybe freeze him from movement, give him access to certain cards and such, so pretty much being a 50/50 thing.
Keep note, I was writing this while recovering from a small bit of writer's block.
That or just tired hands.
EDIT: Also, to Heat's post, with the Law Neutral Mafia system, isn't that alot like the DnD system, with characters being Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic? That being said, good idea. Maybe you could add in chips or other things that work better when you're more mafia, or good. Maybe even areas could work with this. Say when you're put in an undernet style stage, Mafia characters would work better there, but they wouldn't work as well in some place like Netopia or AC/DC.
last edited by
Quick note as I'm doing my physics: misinterpretation on my part on a project split. Still pooling ideas with RoboTek.
Also, if Pocket passes by and happens to read this, do you anticipate having any luck on modifying Apprentice to run the game? At some point in the new future we were considering putting in a test run with the basic framework to try and find what's missing. If you think you will be able to edit it, let us know and I'll try and drop you the specifications, and if not, tell me and I'll begin thinking on an alternative.
Also, if Pocket passes by and happens to read this, do you anticipate having any luck on modifying Apprentice to run the game? At some point in the new future we were considering putting in a test run with the basic framework to try and find what's missing. If you think you will be able to edit it, let us know and I'll try and drop you the specifications, and if not, tell me and I'll begin thinking on an alternative.
last edited by
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1...for.html?cat=11
I'd get into detail with the rules, but they are all there; the game seems great, with full of ideas that are salvageable for us. Thought I'd share...
I'd get into detail with the rules, but they are all there; the game seems great, with full of ideas that are salvageable for us. Thought I'd share...
last edited by
My end of the project's stalled for now until a way's discovered to test this over the net. I'm not personally pursuing it owing to one part lacking the knowledge to reverse-engineer a system even if I found one and another part dead motivation. In any case, Pocket indicated he did not believe he would be able to alter Apprentice's system (outside of changing individual cards), so the project's currently at a roadblock until something new arises. That doesn't mean people can't keep posting ideas, of course.