RERN Card Game Dev. Room

Everyone's been talking about it in the chat, so I figured I'd put up a thread to post your ideas on it. This first post will include my idea for it, but feel free to use the thread to post your own entirely different system or critique and build on the currently posted ones. I encourage you to build on this system with your own ideas if you like it, post your own entirely different one if you hate it, or simply tell me you hate it so I'll know that it's not something anyone's interested in playing.

I encourage you all to read ALL the ideas posted (unless those ideas specifically say LOL NEVERMIND or some such thing) before creating your own: you might find something good you didn't expect.

As a sidenote, my main reason for making this topic is to keep everyone from trying to talk over each other in the chat about it, since there's no way to organize a solid idea that way. With this, I hope that someone will come up with a good system (building off others, if necessary) that we can all agree to use to build the game's cards around.

My idea so far (all incomplete parts marked [*] ... this is just a framework to see if the basic idea is any good):




GOAL OF THE GAME
Each player (with this idea, it could be possible to have more than two if desired) has a Navi. This Navi is used to defeat the opponent's viruses in waves. The Navi levels up, unlocking new skills specific to that Navi, and gains prizes (chips or so forth). After a certain number of turns fighting viruses, the Navis will then face off against each other, utilizing the skills and chips they gained against the viruses.

BUILDING A DECK
You build a deck by picking up to three Navis and a certain number [*] of chips and subchips. Chips and subchips would probably be organized into 3 tiers. Some chips would be marked "starter," meaning they can be selected as one of the chips your Navi can begin with rather than used as a prize. Each Navi would have a Speed and HP determined by the card, generally 3 for the speed and [*] for the HP, as well as an ATK and C. ATK value and 3 signatures. You would then build a separate "enemy deck". Each enemy has a certain number of EP that will determine how many can be in a wave and certain skills to use against Navis. Each Navi and Virus also has an element: these elements follow the same cycle as RE:RN's and result in twice the damage from the ATK or C. ATK of an opponent.

All deck card limits are [*].

FLOW OF THE GAME

Setting Up
Each player (chooses? randomly selects?) one of the three Navis in his deck to use as his Navi for that game, and three starter chips for their "hand". These may be shown to the opponent. The rest of the each player's chips, all subchips, and the other two Navis go in each player's respective prize pile.
Each player then flips enemies up from their deck to comprise the "first wave." This wave is set at a cap of 100 EP, and enemy cards are flipped face up until their total is equal to 100. If the first card flipped exceeds 100, it is returned to the bottom of the deck.
A coin is flipped to decide who goes first.

Player Turns
The player has as many actions with his Navi as his number of actions dictates. During these actions he may choose to use chips, to use a signature, to attack, or to use his Navi's charge attack (requires all actions of that turn to use). Signatures and chips can only be used once per wave. The Navi's goal is to wipe out the wave of enemies that the opponent flips up from his enemy deck. The Navi may also choose to "dodge" an enemy virus, which will negate that enemy's attack if it attacks during its turn. Upon defeating an enemy, the player earns prizes from the prize pile corresponding to a number specific to that enemy. A player may only hold [*] tier-1 chips, [*] tier-2 chips, and 1 tier-3 chip. If more than this number are earned, the player may add more by discarding others. Once all actions are expended, the opponent player's enemy turn begins. Players may choose not to use actions.

Enemy Turns
The player chooses actions for each of the active enemies. Different enemies will have different skills. Generally they will have an attack, but may also have the ability to dodge or use special skills. Once all enemy actions are expended, the opponent player's player turn begins. Enemies may choose not to use actions.

This cycle repeats until the starting player has gone through [*] cycles. If a Navi's HP is depleted prior to the end of this number of cycles, they will be "Jacked Out" and must skip their player turns until the number of cycles completes.

Waves
After one wave of enemies is defeated, the player will gain a level and gain access to a new signature. The defeated wave then becomes a "second wave," and enemy cards are flipped again, this time capping at 150 points. The Navi's ability to use chips and signatures is refreshed. The Navi may choose not to go onto a new wave after clearing one. The waves will proceed to a "third wave" capping at 200 in this same manner.

Gameplay note The point of controlling the enemy, then, normally can be divided into two strategies: defense or offense. Defensively, you would try to stall the player by keeping him from depleting the enemies and progressing quickly. Offensively, you would attempt to defeat the Navi and keep him from progressing at all until the Versus stage.

Navi Versus
After the cycles complete, the two Navis face off. All HP is restored and all uses are refreshed. The Navi with the greater number of actions goes first. If the Navis have the same number of actions, a coin flip will decide who goes first.
Each player takes turns fighting in much the same way as before. Each player has access to the supplies earned during the enemy-fighting session. Once a Navi's HP reaches 0, that player has lost and the opponent has won.

MISCELLANEOUS

Crosses
What were those Navis you shuffled into the prize pile to start with? My idea was that these serve as "crosses" which can be earned as prizes. These crosses could be played without the use of an action and would allow you access to that Navi's first signature attack and change your element to that of the Navi for 3 turns. Just a little gimmicky thing. A cross would count as a tier-2 chip.

Operators
You'll notice that operators are distinctly missing from the equation. Perhaps each deck could have one operator card assigned to it from the beginning that lent certain bonuses to the Navi you choose. In any case, I did not see them as fundamental and they could be considered as an afterthought.

Subchips and Chips
In the context of the game, these are not functionally different. A recovery chip, for instance, is activated in the same way as a MiniEnrg subchip, and both can only be used within the same limitations. If diversifying them is preferred, the subchips could have more powerful effects that could only be activated once PERIOD.

SPs
No plan for SPs at all. I suppose they could function as a type of prize, but again, these seem like an afterthought.

PAs
Do we need these? I suppose they could be included somehow in chip sub-text, but it didn't seem necessary.

Signatures
Signatures would not be limited to one attack: each level of signature may include bonuses such as additional HP, chip slots, and actions or such things that are independent of the one granted attack.

Enemies
Note that I say "Enemy" and not "Virus": while the typical enemy card would be a virus, I was thinking that certain minibosses are actual bosses could be included. Note that cards with higher EP would be far more powerful than those with lower, increasing on a non-linear scale: this is because, for instance, if a card had higher than 100 EP it could get shuffled to the bottom and not appear at all in the course of the battle. Appropriately, then, these will appear later on in the waves and will grant more prizes to the players who defeat them, but offer a more significant opportunity for the enemy controller to actually delete the Navi.

Diversity
Where would the diversity in strategy planning be? Well, I planned for it to come from the variety of cards available (and indeed, there'd have to be a lot in this idea, considering viruses, chips, and Navis all have separate general cards). If the database could not be made large enough, we could actually create artificial diversity by creating "starter decks" players could choose from and then allowing them to earn "booster packs" by winning against other players in a board-controlled ranking. This would also reduce the need to completely balance all cards, as a more rare card could be appropriately more advantageous.

Are you familiar with the card game, "Magi-Nation"? This sounds a lot like it. At the very least, you could raid it for ideas. XD

I actually am. XD I guess this is a bit like that, yeah.

There was apparently a TCG based on the megaman battle network series but it died very early. Yeah. Also, maybe you should consider getting a sign-up list for people who want their navis in the game?

Oh yeah, a big issue to be resolved whenever anyone has the time and resources: we were all ribbing each other and talking about how this would be fun and what not, but I don't actually know how to go about doing this. XD Is there some sort of way to make a system, or would we be playing over message or something?

I'd like to reiterate that I am absolutely NOT in charge of this project. I'd like to help, but my system was intended to be one of a number pitched (unless it's just that great, which would surprise me). My point is, don't pursue me for progress on it. I was just trying to get a framework idea down for someone to build on...

You could use Apprentice. It's just a matter of rewriting the dat file they use to list all the cards. I do not know how to rewrite a dat file properly but I'm sure SOMEONE on the board knows.

Are we adding in like... fourth wall stuff like moderation and things like events to spice up the game?

Pocket played: LAAAAAAAAZY MOD
"Opponent's current Navi skips one turn."

Pocket played: TERRIBLE RP
"If opponent's navi played no dodges this turn, all enemy attacks gain +10 damage"

ARGH I LIKE THE SYSTEM AND WANT TO GO AHEAD AND START MAKING CARDS ETIOEHT:WTJWTEWtwEIOtj

Uh, at any rate, if you used Apprentice, would you be able to keep track of the piles and things that we were talking about?

Well, Apprentice is pretty lax in its layout. You make one deck and you can draw from it and place it anywhere on the field, which is just this enormous grid. It has every option necessary to play a card game without restricting you to designated slots to put your cards in.



This is what the field looks like (you can set your own background) and you can somewhat tell where the grid is. The big white block of text is a mouseover of the card.

Nice, I like it. That sounds like a pretty wicked sweet idea.

MagicWorkStation works similarly. I'm not sure how to go about making a custom database for it, though. I know it's possible, but I'm not sure how to do it. I could maybe try if someone wanted me to, though.

I love card games, by the way. XD (Including that Magi-Nation. >_>)

Sign me up!

One idea that would seem interesting: Double use cards. Virii are both used as enemies AND chips; the "top" half of the card has the virii spec, the bottom half has the chip specs. Flip a navi and it becomes a cross/navi chip. There could be of course chip cards that are only single type and in exchange are stronger...

This opens up a bunch of strategic options; we could forego the "enemy pile" and have only one deck, where you can either use the cards for a single attack (as a chip), or put it on the field as a permanent (virii), and risk being captured by the opponent.

Well, uh, random ideas over, as I don't have much time now. I'll be back with more later XD

Heat's gone to bed already, but:

Each player then flips enemies up from their deck to comprise the "first wave." This wave is set at a cap of 100 EP, and enemy cards are flipped face up until their total is equal to 100. If the first card flipped exceeds 100, it is returned to the bottom of the deck.

This section didn't work, so we're doing it more like this.

Each player then flips enemies up from their deck to comprise the "first wave." This wave is set at a cap of 100 EP, and enemy cards are flipped face up until their total is equal to or exceeding 100. If the number exceeds 100, the exceeding virus is discarded. If the first card is labeled a miniboss it alone is played (any minibosses picked up after a virus is drawn are discarded).

Also, there will be a max 4 of each card per deck (and a max 1 of each navi).

EDIT: Also, thanks for the input. Let's see... I kind of like the idea of putting the virus/chip on one card, but I'm not so sure about the idea of viruses and navis battling alongside each other. Just cause the idea seems kind of RERN unfaithful. But hrmmm... if you have any more on the idea feel free to post it.

Quote (Knight)

Sign me up!

One idea that would seem interesting: Double use cards. Virii are both used as enemies AND chips; the "top" half of the card has the virii spec, the bottom half has the chip specs. Flip a navi and it becomes a cross/navi chip. There could be of course chip cards that are only single type and in exchange are stronger...

This opens up a bunch of strategic options; we could forego the "enemy pile" and have only one deck, where you can either use the cards for a single attack (as a chip), or put it on the field as a permanent (virii), and risk being captured by the opponent.

Well, uh, random ideas over, as I don't have much time now. I'll be back with more later XD

That actually seems like a pretty cool idea.

I guess it'd be perfectly fine to still keep the waves, but do like you said, with drawing a hand of chip-virus cards and putting them down or keeping them as you choose. Only concern I still have is that it seems like getting chips both as rewards and from this is kind of weird.

I miss triple triad from FF8 >_>;
Thanks for resurrecting the pain q_q
: D

I'm just gonna through out the fact that the .hack//enemy card game would be best style for this type of thing, only adding the options of playing viruses and navis as weapons, for chips and crosses respectively, and sig attacks replacing actions...

let me scratch you the rules as a DJ! wiki wiki

edit: also put me on the list

I'm having a hard time rousing discussion in the chat today, but I did read the ideas posted so far and give Niax's link a look. I'd encourage others to as well, as the system seems like it could provide some insight on our own.

That said, due to today seeming like a bad pacing time for working on this (I also have Statics to do), I encourage everyone to look over everything posted so far and to post any other solid ideas or recommendations they have. In the near future, maybe tomorrow, I'll begin actively changing around my idea based on these suggestions (unless somebody wants to post up an entirely new system based on the ideas people have brought up).

Well, I might as well throw my thoughts into the buckets of ideas.

Instead of bringing virii up from your deck, you could maybe have one person who acts as the "moderator", and chooses the amount of virii that you battle and the ones that you do battle. They could also make scenarios, bring in help for big battles, make bosses and such. They could also have their own deck of "Mod Cards" which could be, like the comical cards that Pocket suggested.

Mods could take turns tending to each player, like, for example, say I'm playing with NaviGuy, and ModGuy is the Mod. It's my turn, so ModGuy turns to me, and I do my actions and stuff. He calculates the damage and such, and does the virii turn, for as we all know, sometimes the virii don't ALWAYS attack. Then, after all that business, ModGuy will turn to NaviGuy. While NaviGuy has his turn to blast through, I have a chance to think of a strategy for my next attack, giving you some time to think without holding everyone back.

You maybe could also have the "virus in your deck" function to use them as chips or maybe the Mod can use them to add to the wave, or even you could use them as a small companion for a turn or two. Also, the Mod would work with both Navi players when the finally clash in battle.

I dunno, my main problem with that idea personally is that I'm not crazy about the idea of a mod acting essentially as the "Dungeon mod" with the setup. It seems like that could overcomplicate the system to the point that it became more like RE:RN we just happened to be playing with cards, rather than a standalone card game where you're concerned with building a unique deck. It just seems like the RE:RN mod's job isn't to actively try and kill the player, it's to keep his journey going and making sense while providing interesting challenges, which is what it sounds like in your game. However, I actually prefer it if during the card game, there's a strict sense of competition (or possibly cooperation). This line

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He calculates the damage and such, and does the virii turn, for as we all know, sometimes the virii don't ALWAYS attack.

particularly calls this to mind. This is a restraint system created on RE:RN to balance difficulty artificially, and works well. In a competitive card game, however, I really prefer that there's two players on a similar field with no holding back. The idea of "scenarios" sounds like an interesting variation, but I'm not sure about basing the entirety of the game's system around it. If you're really interested in it, though, type up a system you might get interest for it.

There are a number of concerns for me with having chips/viruses as the same cards. First off, I don't see a huge strategic base for separating between using a chip as a chip or as a summonable virus, barring making chips ridiculously powerful to excuse the fact that summons create a bigger target. My bigger concern, however, is that I felt with the system I designed, it still seems as though the viruses are a separate force from the players. We don't allow virus summons in RE:RN as a very specific rule, and every player doing it in the card game seems kind of off.
Another concern I have for the viruses giving you their chip as a prize, speaking in the sense of our current system, is that you could exploitably design your virus deck to give no chips of value so that the Versus stage would be a cakewalk. While this could be artificially balanced and prevented, it seems to me that it would be just another complication to worry about. I'm not entirely opposed to this system, though, it seems to make some good sense. If anyone has a good idea that sets this worry to rest, please post it.

We did have that idea that if you clear the final of the three waves before the time limits up you get the big reward of your final sig, right? It seems like that never got out there.

The reason you wouldn't want to make an enemy deck that gave nothing but lame rewards is because then your opponent would get his final sig for certain.