Sig Effect Suggestion Thread

If anyone happens to remember the discussion we had once about nerfing Microburst, I'd like to re-iterate my suggestion.

50 points, 60 at most, cannot be Passive.

Fear: (40 points per target per instance) Target is terrifed by a source and runs away from it, taking only defensive actions until the target gains its courage again. (Target must run from the source of fear. Can not use buster or sigs. Can only use defensive chips until Fear is over.)

I got one!
Name: Terrain Attack
Range: The terrain panels that you need for this move (like coal,water,or something)
Tips: Get a Stage Change ability with this one,and BOOM you have a 100% GUARANTEED HIT.
Cost: 3x(Amount of Damage)

Quote (Pikaman X)

I got one!
Name: Terrain Attack
Range: The terrain panels that you need for this move (like coal,water,or something)
Tips: Get a Stage Change ability with this one,and BOOM you have a 100% GUARANTEED HIT.
Cost: 3x(Amount of Damage)

I don't understand how this sig effect actually works, and guaranteed hits are illegal.

I have to agree with Grim. Also, even with the multiplier, I can see cheap and easy combos.

Well.. while I am here, I better give it a jab too.

Elemental Defenses(aka, imbue barriers, casings, and shields with a element)
People talk about elements not being used that much, so why not imbue our defenses with the stuff along side our offense? We have the frame work for such moves in the Planeswalker abilities, halving the damage if it's the same element and doubling if it's the opposite, but it hasn't been put in practice.

Not only that, but this can allow for a bigger variety of defensive moves and actual fire walls.

Imbue Elemental Effect(aka, imbue element status effect)
Basically, this is imbuing a status effect related to a element to a elemental sig. Many of the status changes as we have now don't see a lot of use due to their pricing or their general lack of use. So, why not give them a use by putting them together with certain elements?

For example:
Aqua: Freeze
Wood: Confusion
Fire: Burn(for how much? Not sure)
Elec: Hold

Obviously this is a add on to a elemental attack, so the prices would stack, but this gives a small advantage to an elemental navi and can actually make sense for some elemental moves(we have ice and fire based navis, but their moves neither freeze or burn).

Just a thought.

I just thought of this while chatting with Lt Grim in Chat... Tier Effects: Require other effects to work...example is another sugestion Double Glitch (Name? Blah...) Requirement: Life Drain Effect: Give same effect to the user and the target so if the effect is Stun after the life is drains both the user and target are drained...prob give a side effect to it...cost less than 2 glitches together (20+20=40 so 30 or something) and for Bug subtypes less than that if they use there free glitch as a token for it (20+0=20 so 10 or something)

Some of these (one in particular) may seem broken. Just playing with making Planar attacks more of a viable option. If any of these have already been suggested, then ignore me.

Planar Duplication: Same cost as Terrain Changes [Allows the user to create more of the terrain it is currently standing on. DOES NOT FUNCTION on non-elemental terrain types.]

Planar Crash: 120 (Per Round, Per Target) [Disables an enemy's ability to use Terrain's element on an attack. Does not disable any attacks with the same element; it simply nullifies the elemental property. DOES NOT FUNCTION on non-elemental terrain types.]

Planar Shot: 40 [Add the Terrain element to a Null Element attack. Changes panel type to cracked, and will break when user steps off panel. DOES NOT FUNCTION on non-elemental terrain types.]

I know its been unused for two years, but this looks like the right place. I just thought I would present a pair of nerf ideas.

Chip Sacrifice Nerf: Add 30 to cap per chip sacrificed.[A nerf. Requires the user to sacrifice any chip to perform their signature.]

I know that chip-dependent sigs have not been approved in the past, but the past discussion seems to indicate that this refers to effects that hinge on or are affected by the actual properties of a chip. This just requires you to sacrifice any chip.

Mostly, it would be a good alternative to a charge burner or charge time effect. It would also double as a use limit (you lose access when you run out of chips).


Cripple: Add 50 to cap per instance. Maximum of 2.[A nerf. After the sig is used, one of the user's arms becomes unusable for X(3?) turns.]

This would prevent the user from using more than one weapon simultaneously, or holding a shield in addition to attacking. I think it would also be useful for roleplaying purposes as well, serving a purpose similar to the X Lock series of nerfs.

The self-cripple suggestion interests me, because it would tie in very well with some already self-imposed limitations on my own navi... as a result, it appeals to me conceptually, and I can think of appropriate RP ways to make it work well... however, my concern with that would be that it could essentially act as a free/effectless nerf (i.e. a point gain that's not a nerf at all) for players to which the specifics would not really effect: Players whose mode of attack doesn't rely on their limbs in any way, or players with an excessive supply of spare limbs, for example.

The idea really appeals to me, but I think the reason things like the existent buster crash, etc. are so general are precisely because physically, people's navis can be so very different and divergent... I'm not saying it can't be made to work, but I'm guessing it would need to be worded and designed quite carefully.

In regards to the excessive supply of limbs, I believe I recall reading a rule which limits usable limbs to 2. You may have as many limbs as you wish, but only two may hold equipment or use the buster. I must admit, however, that I can't seem to find it again...maybe I imagined it.

As for the issue of characters who don't use them, I can't deny that. The same, however, applies to Buster Crash (for example). If the navi is willing to specialize in such a way as to avoid the issue, they may. It still serves to limit their options, despite that.

Your basically trading away your ability to use a second weapon in exchange for the boost. That isn't negligible, even if you plan your moves to avoid needing that ability.

If you meant characters who deploy their attacks by some unusual means (breath weapon, shoulder mounted cannons, etc.), I would assume that the crippling effect would apply to whatever was used to deploy the attack, rendering it useless.

...I'm beginning to see how this might get complex. I think it might still be viable, but the idea still needs some work, I admit.

We might be able to do something with these. I'll work on it when time permits.

You are correct in stating that regardless of the amount of limbs, you have "two" for the sake of attack/shield slots.

Thank you for confirming that, I was unsure.

I'm glad my suggestions seem to be (possibly) viable. It's a pleasure to (hopefully) contribute to this excellent RPG.

I assume this is where I post the dupe consept. It is based heavily off of narutos shadow clone technique...

Dupes: When he makes a dupe of himself he devides his energy between each dupe and himself. This makes them all generally thee same strength but also decreases it. (example he makes 1 dupe. him and the dupe are equal in power but they are each at half power. This becomes more obvious the more he has) Each dupe is limited to exist for up to 24 hours, until deleted, or until he is jacked out. If it reaches the time limit or he is jacked out all the dupes memories and what theyve learned are transferred to him. In the event that they are deleted this does not occur to perfection, he may get bits and pieces of memories. When a dupe times out all remaining energy, stamina, and hp are transferred and divided up among him and any remaining dupes. In the event that he the original is deleted all the others are deleted simultaneously. To create any dupes takes 3 seconds of concentration (if he is being punched in the face or something he cant dupe). The dupes once separated dont have a special connection to him like telepethy or something (I suppose you could upgrade them to have it later but I'm going off of the most basic version of this ability). They are as separate as any other navi until they re-merge.

double souls: When another navi uses his duo-soul they remain largely the same but they get his power to dupe. these dupes oporate similar to his but with the following changes: He can only make 2 dupes (total of 3 versions of himself) and with the added requirement that they all have to be in the same duo-soul, if the original changes duo-soul the dupes disappear immidiately. (the navi does get the stanima, hp, and memories). In the event that the navi is in his duo-soul, has dupes active, and is sent chip data, all the dupes get a copy of said chip data but again its weaker depending on the number of dupes.

Ahem,

Let's try this again.

As always, welcome, and thanks for making a suggestion.

As I said initially, best thing to do when you're interested in suggesting a new effect is to look closely at the existing Signature Attack Effect list and work out how the effect you want can most closely be simulated in the current rules. Once you do that, you'll have a rough gauge for where the power to cost ratio lies, at least more or less. If the thing you want to propose would be, by those numbers, a lot more powerful than any similar available alternatives, or if it comes out to be ineffective compared to achieving the effect a different way, then you'll probably need to reconsider it in some ways or rescale it to suite the rest of the system's balance.

You've given us a concept here, and it's a fun idea, however the way you describe it mostly sounds like it's a very personally specific function and concept that you've got in your mind, for a very specific navi. That being the case, it may work well as a theme for your character, but such things usually aren't a good candidate for being turned into standard effects that we can add to the Signature Attack Effect list. Let's have a look at it anyway, though.

Most of what you suggested sounds like it would be neat for the particular character, and would be cool as long as the character is doing role play, social interaction and other non-combat activities. The moment it drops into a combat situation, however, the actual effects and functions of the ability have to fall in line with the system rules and limits.

So what can we do? What do we have to work with?

The effect is intended to be ale to create several independently acting entities out of one single navi, that are each capable of doing things at a reduce rate, while also having tangible hp, and are in terms of stamina, a real part of the user. This is difficult in the current system, because of the way combat works, but there are a few ways we can try to mimic it.

The first is with decoys; they're effectively shadow clones of your navi, but they are limited in a few ways that may make them unsuitable as an option ,at least if used on their own. For starters, they don't have Hp pools, and on their own the can't make attacks. They also aren't proper entities, in that they don't have formal actions of their own, though you are generally allowed to describe their movement and behaviour freely, within reasonable limits, as long as they're active. They are tangible, in that they can touch and interact, and if you want them to, speak, etc., but not in the same way that you seem to be after.

Duration is important too. In combat terms, whatever you do, there can be no 'lasts for 24 hours' thing possible. No combat effects remain between combats, at all, and that's not likely to change. You also wouldn't be realistically allowed to have the duplicates be far enough remote from you to the extent that they could engage in different combats, or different major events — it would be a pretty direct cheat on our rules dealing with navi continuity etc., so don't expect that to happen either.

All the details about retaining memory, or experience, is all aesthetic; it's up to you, and we wouldn't be likely to rule on it one way or the other, in the name of player creative freedom.

Another way we could try to mirror this effect would be with object summoning. A signature that summoned an object, with an attack of some description built into it its entirely doable in this system, and if you're a summon type navi, you can do a fair amount with your object summons.

You could make an object that summons as a physical replica of your self with a hit point pool, and with a directable movement, an attack of some kind, or even attacks and movements each turn, if you were willing to pay the passive signature cost for that. It would be very expensive to do this to any useful strength, but it would work. Essentially, to make an object of yourself that could move once and attack with your buster once each turn, would cost you 150 sig points, plus the amount of Hp you wanted to give it. You could balance that with Hp sacrifice nerfs from the user, for thematic purposes — either lowering the eventual cooldown of the signature, of having to spend fewer points from your actual pool to achieve the effect. Something like that might be acceptable, though I'm a bit hazy on how 'animated' such an 'object' would reasonably be allowed to be — if objects can be as animated as Decoys, in terms of how they look and behave, then that mostly renders decoys pointless, so, there would need to be a limit. If you wanted to take this path, though, we could work around it, again, at cost.

An in between option might be to create decoy signatures, and utilise the Hp sacrifice nerf to get the most potential out of them, as well as making yourself some passive attacks not specifically attached to anything; you could then describe the passive attacks as taking to form of being utilised by the decoys. Visually and aesthetically, it would be clones attacking, even though the underlying mechanics would just be using our existing systems.

Those are the sorts of things we can do currently to mimic this effect. So, then we ask, what can we propose as an effect that is acceptable in the power to cost balance of the system?

I might suggest something like this:

Duplicate: 80 (Per Duplicate, Per turn) Creates a duplicate of the user that shares their HP pool and actions. The user's HP is divided evenly amongst the number of duplicates created, including the original, and the maximum Hp of each duplicate so created is equal to the user's max Hp divided by the number of duplicates created by the signature plus the user (Max Duplicate Hp = User Max Hp/(Duplicate Count + 1)). This means that Duplicates will not be created with their potential Max Hp, if the user is not at full Hp when they create them. Creating Duplicates does not duplicate defences, wielded gear, status effects, buffs or debuffs; a physical body with Hp is all that is created by this effect.

The user retains the same number of actions while duplicates exist, and must share them between all duplicates. This means that if the user has 5 actions normally, and they use one action to use a signature that creates duplicates, they then have an additional four to use, and must allocate them specifically; for example, this might mean using one action with the original to dodge, one action with a duplicate to use another of their signature abilities, and two more actions for a second duplicate to cross the room and activate a console. If a duplicate is destroyed before carrying out its assigned actions, those actions are simply lost.

After creation, all are capable of attacking and receiving damage, however the original retains priority; automatically activated NC programs, such as Undershirt, trigger only on the original, for example. Activated NC programs, such as Shield, can still be manually used by Duplicates. The duplicates do not share damage but sustain it individually and a Duplicate is destroyed if their personal pool of Hp is depleted.

When the duration for a duplicate expires, if it is still alive, it disappears and all of its remaining Hp, Defences, Equipment, Effects, Buffs and Debuffs (including status ailments), are returned or inherited by the original navi. In the case of conflicts (multiple duplicates expiring at the same time, or a duplicate expiring while possessing conflicting defences or gear to the original), the navi must still follow the normal rules and may retain only one effect for each defence layer that limits them, as well as no more than two wielded equips. Each conflict is considered independent, and multiple Hp defences do not stack or add on; the navi simply chooses which one to retain.

For Example: DupeNavi has three Duplicates, which all expire at the same time. DupeNavi has a 30Hp casing, while one of her duplicates has a 10Hp Casing and a 20hp barrier, and a second duplicate has a 2-Hit Shield and a Sword chip, while a third duplicate has a Varitails and a Pillow. When they expire, DupeNavi would need to pick between the two casings — 30Hp or 10Hp, and could not claim to have a 40hp one. Despite forfeiting the 10Hp casing from the first duplicate, she would still inherit the 20Hp barrier from it. She would also need to to make a choice between the three weapons and the shield, forfeiting at least two, so as to only retain two wield slots.

If the original navi is reduced to zero Hp while Duplicates remain the effect immediately ends, as though the remaining Duplicates had expired; the left over damage is subtracted from the new aggregate Hp, potentially preventing an EJO if the new figure remains positive.

This proposal essentially uses the 'divided' effect that some viruses have. This gives the user versatility and a certain amount of unpredictability, but it also come with some steep risks. The navi can effectively be in multiple places at once, but they also become multiple targets, all capable of sustaining damage from AoEs and other multi-target risks. Similarly, they would be able to potentially benefit from positive multi-target effects, such as a heal that can target three allies.

This would be my mechanical suggestion for making the desired effect site-viable. I would still recommend taking a good read over the Signature Attack Effect list, though, and the battle rules, to get a firm understanding of how the combat system works, and what principles combat effects will need to abide by. Do swing by the chat some time and say hello, so I can apologise for my first post ^.^

-Rogan

Signature Effect: Mimic
Accuracy: S if ally is targeted/ Variable Accuracy if targeting an enemy navi, dependent on method of attack.
Cost: 40
Additional Cost: Variable

Effect: Replace this Signature's Effects with another Signature's Effects for the duration of the battle, while the TCD of this Signature also becomes the same as the copied Signature's own. The chosen Signature may be used right away with an additional action. User may only copy active Signatures whose costs don't exceed the following formula: X = Y, +40 where X is the cost of the target Signature to be copied and Y is the user's Additional Cost allocated to the mimic signature.

Suggested re-write to make more sense and look more like the other effects:

Mimic: Variable + 40 [First action launches an attack with B accuracy against enemies, S accuracy against allies. On contact, it copies one signature attack for the user to utilize for the rest of the battle. It can only copy enemy signature attacks previously seen by the user. If the first action hits, but fails to copy any signature attacks, it instead turns into a [color=red]Variable/2[/color] dmg Null attack with A accuracy]
Example: Mimic (40)
Explanation: When used, it can copy a target signature worth up to 40 signature points such as 20Null + Blast2. This example cannot copy any signature attacks that cost more than 40 points, and all Mimic effects cannot target Passive or Beast signatures. This Mimic signature would cost a total of 80 points