Hmm... well, I'm all for different permutations of nerfing/buffing so long as it gets done :P. All I was asking for was to consider a more organized way of looking at subtypes (that is, to seperate advantages into definite and RP categories in order to really look at what needs adjusting and what doesn't)
I still don't think this poll has any meaning, however, because 1: The options are always changing and 2: Incomplete information is given regarding the revamping of the system.
Subtypes?
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Quote (Skyrender)
Hmm... well, I'm all for different permutations of nerfing/buffing so long as it gets done :P. All I was asking for was to consider a more organized way of looking at subtypes (that is, to seperate advantages into definite and RP categories in order to really look at what needs adjusting and what doesn't)
I still don't think this poll has any meaning, however, because 1: The options are always changing and 2: Incomplete information is given regarding the revamping of the system.
Revamping would be completely tearing it down and building a new system. There's been a few scattered ideas, nothing definite. If we can solve this near-permanently with just a patch, I'll go with that.
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Which would be nice, but the discussion in here is ridiculously clogged. There's a reason for the Mod-Cave, and that is to keep the discussion between the elite.
Granted, a lot of the members here are on a level with our moderators or even above. Point in case: Skyrender vs. me.
However, trying to slog through this just makes me think, more and more, that the best solution is to have someone write a first draft of a new system, then work with it from there. Along these lines, we could use one of the proposals in this thread as that "first draft."
Again, excessive discussion hurts progress.
Granted, a lot of the members here are on a level with our moderators or even above. Point in case: Skyrender vs. me.
However, trying to slog through this just makes me think, more and more, that the best solution is to have someone write a first draft of a new system, then work with it from there. Along these lines, we could use one of the proposals in this thread as that "first draft."
Again, excessive discussion hurts progress.
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Break type(my point of view) = high HP, high possible damage, attacks with/by ignoring enemy's defense, don't concern too much about self-condition as long as can attack with high damage....
Break
+30hp each HPmem(or 25)
+10hp each 5 levels(or 5)
plus damage for non element chip and charge shot(good RP skill OR random, mod decide) *additional damage could be RANDOM....it could be 1 or 5,8,22,17* and yes, each battlechip can have random additional damage....
charge(two actions) non element battlechip to pierce enemies defense, charged battlechip cannot have increased RANDOM damage....
sacrifice HP to increase attack damage, usable two times for one battle(+1 time each five levels)....can only sacrifice 10HP at the begining and +10 each 5 levels(increase maxHP sacrifice)....dont cost any action to use this skill....
increase resistance against stun(dont know about this one)
---
decreased movement speed and accuracy
-30 or -20 each time using recov and barrier chips with the minimum of 10
-10 or -20 for gun-type battlechip
*can't stop thinking about crit sinX(leon's post) when I wrote this*
*feel free to accept or reject my ideas/suggestion*
Break
+30hp each HPmem(or 25)
+10hp each 5 levels(or 5)
plus damage for non element chip and charge shot(good RP skill OR random, mod decide) *additional damage could be RANDOM....it could be 1 or 5,8,22,17* and yes, each battlechip can have random additional damage....
charge(two actions) non element battlechip to pierce enemies defense, charged battlechip cannot have increased RANDOM damage....
sacrifice HP to increase attack damage, usable two times for one battle(+1 time each five levels)....can only sacrifice 10HP at the begining and +10 each 5 levels(increase maxHP sacrifice)....dont cost any action to use this skill....
increase resistance against stun(dont know about this one)
---
decreased movement speed and accuracy
-30 or -20 each time using recov and barrier chips with the minimum of 10
-10 or -20 for gun-type battlechip
*can't stop thinking about crit sinX(leon's post) when I wrote this*
*feel free to accept or reject my ideas/suggestion*
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Objection! -slams fist on computer desk and wags finger at D-
I likened Break types to a support class in the mod cave, which I liked a lot more.
My ideas for changes if we don't revamp:
Wind
1. Wind types have to use an action to activate/deactivate the Flight/super speed. Unless using this, they're dodges are normal. If using this and hit, they take +levelx2 damage and lose an action next turn.
2. If using the super speed, all ranged attacks (guns/bombs/other ranged crap) suffer a -5 damage penatly.
Think tripping and rolling about like a moron or being shot down while flying. Hurts and takes some time to recover. Also, think of the damage nerf as being from the majority of their power being used to keep their speed up.
Break
1. Breaks lose the negative accuracy for charged attacks.
2. Gain +10 to bomb chips while -25 to recover/barrier/aura.
3. Breaks gain 35 HP/upgrade.
4. Breaks do not gain any HP from levels.
Recover
1. Charge is multi faceted. Can be used to:
Heal - 2 actions - Rpd x Chg x 4 (max 100)
Aura - 2 actions - Atk x Rpd x 3 HP (max 75, last up to 3 turns, overwrites any existing barrier/guard/aura)
Rebute (special charge attack) - 3 actions - Atk x Chg x 2 (max 50)
Cure a non-navicust/plot bug - 2 actions
2. Gains 15 HP/ Upgrade
3. Normal dodges.
New type Bug
1. Charge is multi faceted. Can be used to:
Disrupt - 2 actions - Rpd x Chg, also lower a buster by 1 (max of 3 in effect at once, last 3 turns each)
Barrier - 2 action - Atk x Rpd /2 hits (max 5)
Seduce (special charge attack) - 3 actions - Atk x Chg x 2 (max 50)
Cause a bug - number of actions depends on bug (2 or 3)-
2. Gains 15 HP/ Upgrade
3. Normal dodges.
Note about a change in Aura and Barriers, so they aren't the same thing (if this is adopted)
Aura's have to be broken within one turn, or they regen to full HP.
Barriers HP does not regen between turns.
I likened Break types to a support class in the mod cave, which I liked a lot more.
My ideas for changes if we don't revamp:
Wind
1. Wind types have to use an action to activate/deactivate the Flight/super speed. Unless using this, they're dodges are normal. If using this and hit, they take +levelx2 damage and lose an action next turn.
2. If using the super speed, all ranged attacks (guns/bombs/other ranged crap) suffer a -5 damage penatly.
Think tripping and rolling about like a moron or being shot down while flying. Hurts and takes some time to recover. Also, think of the damage nerf as being from the majority of their power being used to keep their speed up.
Break
1. Breaks lose the negative accuracy for charged attacks.
2. Gain +10 to bomb chips while -25 to recover/barrier/aura.
3. Breaks gain 35 HP/upgrade.
4. Breaks do not gain any HP from levels.
Recover
1. Charge is multi faceted. Can be used to:
Heal - 2 actions - Rpd x Chg x 4 (max 100)
Aura - 2 actions - Atk x Rpd x 3 HP (max 75, last up to 3 turns, overwrites any existing barrier/guard/aura)
Rebute (special charge attack) - 3 actions - Atk x Chg x 2 (max 50)
Cure a non-navicust/plot bug - 2 actions
2. Gains 15 HP/ Upgrade
3. Normal dodges.
New type Bug
1. Charge is multi faceted. Can be used to:
Disrupt - 2 actions - Rpd x Chg, also lower a buster by 1 (max of 3 in effect at once, last 3 turns each)
Barrier - 2 action - Atk x Rpd /2 hits (max 5)
Seduce (special charge attack) - 3 actions - Atk x Chg x 2 (max 50)
Cause a bug - number of actions depends on bug (2 or 3)-
2. Gains 15 HP/ Upgrade
3. Normal dodges.
Note about a change in Aura and Barriers, so they aren't the same thing (if this is adopted)
Aura's have to be broken within one turn, or they regen to full HP.
Barriers HP does not regen between turns.
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Eh, summary.
Quote ()
Wind
Pros:
- Wind types are hard targets, especially when using actions to dodge.
- Only flying navis allowed.
- Charged attacks can push target out of melee range and/or into obstacles.
- Wind types who RP well are more accurate.
Cons:
- If hit while flying they can be grounded and/or stunned.
- Half Charged Attack Power (x2 instead of x4)
- +15 HP per HP Memory instead of +20 (fragile)
- Base 75 HP, instead of 100. (due to light frame)
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....Aura....in the game, auras have limited time. Aura will disappear if the attack dealt more damage than it's HP or the usage of aura surpassed the limited time.
...and please don't add more types. Adding one more type will be good, but if the place was crammed with subtypes, it will be sucks....
...and please don't add more types. Adding one more type will be good, but if the place was crammed with subtypes, it will be sucks....
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We're balancing them out, and making all of them equally attractive, rather than one being more attractive than the rest.
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Ya know...I had this idea for a wheel:
Cursor > Wind > Sword > Break > Recovery > Cursor
Cursor - Better accuracy counters the Wind dodge, but shots are useless against barriers
Wind - Can stay out of Sword's melee range, but is blasted by Cursor
Sword - Cuts through Break's defenses, but can't hit Wind
Break - Smashes through Recover's barriers, but is slaughtered by Sword
Recover - Barriers stop Cursor's bullets, but are shattered by Break
Meh....Perhaps if we are just going to repair instead of overhaul, this could work as a wheel...
Cursor > Wind > Sword > Break > Recovery > Cursor
Cursor - Better accuracy counters the Wind dodge, but shots are useless against barriers
Wind - Can stay out of Sword's melee range, but is blasted by Cursor
Sword - Cuts through Break's defenses, but can't hit Wind
Break - Smashes through Recover's barriers, but is slaughtered by Sword
Recover - Barriers stop Cursor's bullets, but are shattered by Break
Meh....Perhaps if we are just going to repair instead of overhaul, this could work as a wheel...
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Stop suggesting healing penalties for break types. Having a higher max HP is extremely crappier than just having an extra healing chip that heals for that same increase in health. It basically costs opponents 1 action and 1 chip mid-battle to balance the scales.
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Opinion:
Buff wind since it gives no real STATISTIC boosts.
Buff Break because the statistical boosts it gives are too weak.
Buff wind since it gives no real STATISTIC boosts.
Buff Break because the statistical boosts it gives are too weak.
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We're working on making ALL OF THESE THINGS BALANCED, rather than having one class be better than the others.
If we just patch this up, then we'll have the problem of having a attractive break over another class, such as recov, which only one or two navis are taking, and then there's wind, which is overpowered enough as it is.
Break is the only thing that grows.
We're trying to fix that so that everything grows.
If we just patch this up, then we'll have the problem of having a attractive break over another class, such as recov, which only one or two navis are taking, and then there's wind, which is overpowered enough as it is.
Break is the only thing that grows.
We're trying to fix that so that everything grows.
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Quote (Pocket)
Stop suggesting healing penalties for break types. Having a higher max HP is extremely crappier than just having an extra healing chip that heals for that same increase in health. It basically costs opponents 1 action and 1 chip mid-battle to balance the scales.
Quit bitching about the heal penalties. You'll have a substantial boost to hp with that proposal, and having no reduction to heal would be ridiculous. -25 HP isn't that big of a deal, as spamming anything below a recover 100 is retarded anyways. If you want to power play that badly, change to a different subtype.
I'd still rather people look at breaks as a support class, but since no one will, whatever. Bitch among yourselves until you find your solution.
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Sword and Cursor grow with your chip selection.
Recov is terribly underpowered.
Break's HP boost should be increased now that we have a heavier level system, perhaps 5 HP per level, and the half heal should go away.
Wind should have an improved Rapid, or something, and a boost that grows by level, like Break's HP boost. People say that Wind is overpowered because of its ability to avoid bad effects and its dodges, and I rather agree. Wind is an all-around strong choice and doesn't have the flaws of the others, making it very popular.
Recov is terribly underpowered.
Break's HP boost should be increased now that we have a heavier level system, perhaps 5 HP per level, and the half heal should go away.
Wind should have an improved Rapid, or something, and a boost that grows by level, like Break's HP boost. People say that Wind is overpowered because of its ability to avoid bad effects and its dodges, and I rather agree. Wind is an all-around strong choice and doesn't have the flaws of the others, making it very popular.
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*points at his supposedly new Navi*
And I'm going for Recovery once I'm going to RP again. Being underpowered doesn't mean people won't use it. I'm going Recovery if it's weak or not, I just like being the assist Navi.
And I'm going for Recovery once I'm going to RP again. Being underpowered doesn't mean people won't use it. I'm going Recovery if it's weak or not, I just like being the assist Navi.
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Quote (Kazuhiro)
Sword and Cursor grow with your chip selection.
Recov is terribly underpowered.
Break's HP boost should be increased now that we have a heavier level system, perhaps 5 HP per level, and the half heal should go away.
Wind should have an improved Rapid, or something, and a boost that grows by level, like Break's HP boost. People say that Wind is overpowered because of its ability to avoid bad effects and its dodges, and I rather agree. Wind is an all-around strong choice and doesn't have the flaws of the others, making it very popular.
No, they don't.
They don't grow mechanically, and why are you arguing with me?
-Okay, pocket.
Let's give BREAK subtype a giant laser beam cannon that can break through everything.
Okay, Theo, let's give WIND subtype a even better dodge, and a + bonus to ALL chips.
Shuryou, I think I'd love you if I wasn't asexual.
You too, Paladin.
You'll have to settle for platonic love.
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Quote ()
*points at his supposedly new Navi*
New to RE:RN at any rate. He trades off Sig Attack Power for mass effect carnage while following a Multi-hitting Spammage motif (D.P.S.). There's a ton of negative status effects, terrain destruction, and defense breaking/nullifying techniques at his disposal, and this Navi will mercilessly use them.
Leon's right, this type of Navi would be complete murder in a party.
The only difficulty I see is keeping him alive until I can upgrade him enough to overcome his weaknesses. But, I can manage.
EDIT:
Quote ()
Let's give BREAK subtype a giant laser beam cannon that can break through everything.
Done. B)
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Sword
Pros:
Pros:
Pros:
Pros:
Pros:
Pros:
I swear to god, the first person to bitch about the -25 on recovery chips will get a verbal slap-down, courtesy of logic.
Pros:
- Only Sword types may use other chips without deactivating a Sword. The only exception occurs if a non-Sword navi should choose to simultaneously use two of the same Sword chips. You must still use two actions to swing both swords, however.
[li]Deals 10 extra damage with sword type chips and can keep swords active for an extra turn.
[li]Is the only group allowed to have a sword custom weapon. Sword custom weapons are not required however.
[li] Great RP posts impart improved accuracy and dodging ability to Sword types.
- Less effective with any even remotely ranged attacks, including things like Bamboolance, and deals 10 less damage with gun type chips.
[li] Easy target for ranged attacks.
Pros:
- Well RPed posts can accomplish impossible feats of accuracy. Examples include hitting more enemies than would normally be allowable with a single splash-damage attack, or bouncing shots off of obstacles.
[li] Charged shots have excellent accuracy.
[li] Gun chips are more accurate and gain 10 damage when used at a distance.
- Will easily be overpowered in melee combat.
[li] All non-Gun type chips deal -10 damage.
[li] All melee-range chips suffer from -20 damage.
[li] Worst type for evasive maneuvers.
Pros:
- Can smash obstacles, traps, or other things with a good RP post.
[li] Gains 35 HP per HP Memory.
[li] Bomb chips gain +15 damage, and are slightly more accurate.
[li] Charged shot can pierce all defenses, causing 1/2 damage. If there are no such defenses, the shot deals full damage.
- Dodges are slightly less effective.
[li] All recovery/Aura/Barrier chips suffer a -25 penalty. Subchips heal Break types for the normal amount.
Pros:
- Charged attacks can push target out of melee range and/or into obstacles.
[li] Using an action, the navi can activate/deactivate flying. While flying, their dodges are improved.
[li] Only wind types may have flying navis. The navi doesn't have to fly to be a wind type, however.
- While flying, all attacks suffer a slight accuracy penalty.
[li]If hit while in flying mode, they suffer additional damage and a stun effect.
[li]While flying, all non-melee chips suffer -5 damage.
Pros:
- Bless - 2 actions - Raise one ally's buster by one point (only three active at once, lasts 3 turns)
- Excellent RP posts can cause self and/or others to spontaneously heal.
[li] Charge is multi faceted. Can be used to:[ol]
[li]Heal - 2 actions - Rpd x Chg x 4 (max 100)
[li]Aura - 2 actions - Atk x Rpd x 3 HP (max 75, last up to 3 turns, overwrites any existing barrier/guard/aura)
[li]Rebute (special charge attack) - 3 actions - Atk x Chg x 2 (max 50)
[li]Cure a non-navicust/plot bug - 2 actions
[li] Can use Recovery and Aura chips on other Navis.
[li] Recover chips heal an additional Level HP.
- Slightly less accuracy with all direct-damage chips.
[li] Gains 15 instead of 20 HP per HP Memory upgrade.
Pros:
- Cause a bug - number of actions depends on bug (2 or 3)-
- Great RPing can cause a bug in all enemies simultaneously.
[li] Charge is multi faceted. Can be used to:[ol]
[li]Disrupt - 2 actions - Rpd x Chg, also lower a buster by 1 (max of 3 in effect at once, last 3 turns each, max 25 Damage)
[li]Barrier - 2 action - Atk x Rpd /3 hits (max 3)
[li]Seduce (special charge attack) - 3 actions - Atk x Chg x 2 (max 50)
[li] Recover chips heal and barriers have and additional Level HP.
- Slightly less accuracy with all direct-damage chips.
[li] Gains 15 instead of 20 HP per HP Memory upgrade.
I swear to god, the first person to bitch about the -25 on recovery chips will get a verbal slap-down, courtesy of logic.