Subtypes?

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Wind
Pros:
-Using an action, the navi can activate/deactivate flying. While flying, their dodges are improved.

-Only wind types may have flying navis. The navi doesn't have to fly to be a wind type, however.

-Charged attacks can push target out of melee range and/or into obstacles.

Cons:
-If hit while in flying mode, they suffer additional damage and a stun effect.

-While flying, all non-melee chips suffer -5 damage.

-While flying, all attacks suffer a slight accuracy penalty.

Hmm... Leon's suggestion seems pretty balanced at first glance. My only qualm is that Wind type is basically a normal type with a knockback buster and a "super mode" that allows for wind-type abilities at the cost of penalties.

...

By this I mean, all of Wind's disadvantages seem to originate from their flying mode, which doesn't have to be active. Therefore, no player in their right mind would choose "normal" over "wind" because wind allows for all the abilities of normal, plus a knockback buster and an active flight mode.

Hmm. Good point. Perhaps add in an HP modifier, like 15 per HP mem and starts with 80?

Paladin's suggestion was thus:


Wind
Pros:
- Wind types are hard targets, especially when using actions to dodge.

- Only flying navis allowed.

- Charged attacks can push target out of melee range and/or into obstacles.

- Wind types who RP well are more accurate.

Cons:
- If hit while flying they can be grounded and/or stunned.

- Half Charged Attack Power (x2 instead of x4)

- +15 HP per HP Memory instead of +20

- Base 75 HP, instead of 100.

Eh, I'll just ask this here in regards to my own new Navi I'm working on... It states only Wind types can fly. Would, say, a Recovery type be able to fly with a passive Signature Attack?

Quote (Shuryou)

Eh, I'll just ask this here in regards to my own new Navi I'm working on... It states only Wind types can fly. Would, say, a Recovery type be able to fly with a passive Signature Attack?

Maybe not a passive sig attack, but Zal's allows him to utilize wind type and fly/manipulate wind when activated. It has no other boosts.

I actually like the new break type Leon proposed a lot better. I'd be willing to accept it. The big problem with wind, as Skyrender said, is that it leaves no reason to choose normal subtype. The drawbacks are purely based on whether or not you utilize flying mode. The wind revision Paladin GC gave might fix that problem though. On another note, recovery doesn't seem nearly as wimpy as it used to with Leon's new suggestion. I think that simply taking the amount of actions they need to do things was a much needed step in balancing the subtype.

Uh.... Hrmm... I'll keep thinking on things. But I like where this is going.

And, another suggestion from me:

This works almost exactly the opposite of my suggestion for Wind, in just about every way (and it's balanced).

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Break

Pros:

- Base HP set at 125.

- Gains +25 HP per HP Memory instead of +20.

- Charged shot can pierce all defenses, causing 1/2 damage. If there are no such defenses, the shot deals full damage.

- Can smash obstacles, traps, defenses, and terrain with the right skills and a good RP post. (Mass destruction anyone?)

Cons:

- Recovers 3/4 (-25%) the normal amount from chips and sigatks. Subchips heal Break types for the normal amount.

- Barriers have 1/2 the usual HP and Auras are 1/2 as powerful.

- Charged shots are less accurate than other types.

- Dodges are less effective.

Quote (PaladinGC)

And, another suggestion from me:

This works almost exactly the opposite of my suggestion for Wind, in just about every way (and it's balanced).

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Break

Pros:

- Base HP set at 125.

- Gains +25 HP per HP Memory instead of +20.

- Charged shot can pierce all defenses, causing 1/2 damage. If there are no such defenses, the shot deals full damage.

- Can smash obstacles, traps, defenses, and terrain with the right skills and a good RP post. (Mass destruction anyone?)

Cons:

- Recovers 3/4 (-25%) the normal amount from chips and sigatks. Subchips heal Break types for the normal amount.

- Barriers have 1/2 the usual HP and Auras are 1/2 as powerful.

- Charged shots are less accurate than other types.

- Dodges are less effective.

Sounds good.

I think the Wind's Con is pushing it a bit-too-much. How about having 85 Base Hp so they can get 100 after the first HP upgrade? or just 80~

I did it by %.

- 25% ALL HP for Wind / + Evasion for Wind

+ 25% ALL HP for Break / - Evasion for Break

Flight + Accuacy / Crash for Wind

Break Attack + Break Shot / - Accuracy for Break

Trust me, it's very fair.

Personally, I don't see the reasoning behind Wind types gaining boosted accuracy; I don't think grace and being a good shot fall totally hand in hand.

It should be noted that this accuracy buff clause applies to -all- chips, whereareas Cursor only receives a boost to the one category of chips. This kind of undermines it's role.

Actually... they kinda do.

Being a good shot requires a great deal of motor control.
Graceful movement requires a great deal of motor control.
Weilding certain kinds of swords in a masterful manner requires a great deal of motor control.

What do all 3 have in common?

Accuracy is based on Dexterity. Dexterity quite literally IS motor controll.

Wind gets a small general boost at best.

Sword gets a moderate to huge specilized boost, and mad skills because of it.

Cursor gets a moderate to huge specialized boost, and mad skills because of it.


That's pretty much why it is the way it is.

Quote (PaladinGC)

I did it by %.

- 25% ALL HP for Wind / + Evasion for Wind

+ 25% ALL HP for Break / - Evasion for Break

Flight + Accuacy / Crash for Wind

Break Attack + Break Shot / - Accuracy for Break

Trust me, it's very fair.

I still think its bad for break to be less accurate on the attack that basically defines the type... you also forgot to add the heal penalty break has. I'd rather have that than less accurate charge.

Other than that it does seem reasonable.

EDIT: Ah, wait forgot they can also shrug off stuns... I still think they should have a different drawback instead of accuracy loss.

Quote (Knight)

Quote (PaladinGC)

I did it by %.

- 25% ALL HP for Wind / + Evasion for Wind

+ 25% ALL HP for Break / - Evasion for Break

Flight + Accuacy / Crash for Wind

Break Attack + Break Shot / - Accuracy for Break

Trust me, it's very fair.

I still think its bad for break to be less accurate on the attack that basically defines the type... you also forgot to add the heal penalty break has. I'd rather have that than less accurate charge.

Other than that it does seem reasonable.

Well, I thought that too at first, but then I thought over it; if a break type is using his charged buster, it likely means he wishes to break something, right? If he's hoping to break something, it's likely the enemy's using a barrier, shield, or something else where they wouldn't be dodging in the first place. It's not convenient for an opponent to use a turn to both raise a shield and dodge in most cases.

You do have a point, but I think if I'd pump my charge up to use the charge attack effectively, I'm sure as hell I'd use it. I mean, I have an attack that deals 100 dmg to a foe that is not guarding. As things stand, break is possibly the only type that uses charge attack anyway, (with the exception of recovery who use charge to heal) and yet they are the only one that have bad accuracy with it.

Well see, it will take forever to pump your charge attack up, and even then your charged buster is only good in certain cases. The reason I say this is that it takes 3 turns to charge; if you're not using it for the break effect, you'd be better off just spamming chips during that time for more damage anyways.

Thats what I'm saying. Break is possibly the only class that needs to pump charge attack (and recov, maybe), yet, they are the only class that get less accuracy on it.