[QUESTION] -- Sig Concepts

@LanceKalvaz:

You may only have one barrier active at a time, any newly activated barriers have to overwrite the current barrier and become the active barrier to use. The reason you can equip two shields at a time is because a shield takes up a "hand" and you have two "hands" for the purposes of holding shields and launching attacks. When you have two shields equipped, you lose the ability to make use of your hands and can no longer launch attacks until one of the shields is either used up, or dismissed.

I'm a liar (in which case, I won't even bother making another empty promise about "this being the last question", in this post... Although it may very [ironically] be).

This has become my Sandcastle-topic... which means I may continue using it for future use (now if I could only change the topic title to "Warrior's Sandbox", lol)

CONCEPT

First off -- let me say that I'm going to (most likely) go with the Amulet of Speed idea (2 of my posts ago).

However, instead of summoning the same accessory per-use, I wanted to create a Set of Accessories underneath the Sig, and then Randomize which one I would get, per-use.

With a nerf, I should be able to afford a cheaper-version of the Sig relatively soon (within 2 Process Upgrades, or since I still haven't purchased my first one for reaching Level 1, this skill would theoretically be available on my next Level-Up).

Here's an example of how it would work:

[[b]Jewel Cross[/b]] -- [1 [color=#BBBBBB](Object HP) + 20 (Equipable) + 60 (Random Pool) = 81 SP]] -- [[u]1 Action-Charge Required[/u]] -- [[u]3 CD[/u]]
[[i]Warrior's Emblem materializes infront of the target of this Sig. The emblem emanates a bright white light while spinning rapidly, slowly shifting its shape into a Cross-Shaped, Jewel-Pendant that gently attaches itself to the target's neck after it stops spinning. Once attached, the white-light bathing the pendant appears to shatter, revealing the material empowering the accessory...[/i]]
[PENDANT: 1 Hp + Light + Equipable]
[Can be directed at any Ally/User/Mobile Object. Immobile Objects cannot be targeted]
[Warrior/Allies can only have up to 3 Jewel Pendants equipped at any given time]
[Warrior/Allies can pass a Jewel Pendant back and forth, but it costs a Movement or Take Aim action from each of them (the Passer and the Recipient)]
[Free Movement/Take Aim Actions can be spent to pass a Pendant]
[The Pendant Created is Randomized, as displayed in the Spoilers Below][/color]





Here's Warrior's Crest/Emblem (mentioned in the Sig Description), btw:


Each Pendant has a Passive (x3), 20-SP Effect. So the Pool (for the Random-Effect) is 60. Oh, and, by the way (since I failed to mention it earlier), that link to Regalia helped a lot, so thanks for that.

QUESTION

With that sample in mind, the idea was to make a slightly larger list of Pendants -- but I don't know if there's a limit to how many Random Effects we can add. (Considering the more I add, the less chance each Effect has of being Chosen, I wanted to think there was no limit, but felt that I should as just in case).


If there is no Limit -- then I would pile on pretty much every 20 SP Effect I could think of, into the Skill. Having a very slim, but existent chance of rolling a number I need seems better than being completely stuck without a certain effect. So in all seriousness, if you tell me "there is no limit", there will literally be about 10-12 Random Outcomes of that Sig. #fairwarning

ALSO

As I Level-Up, I want to make it stronger.

Because of the Passive Nature of every Effect involved, every 30 SP I get will provide +10 SP worth of Effects to any of my Pendants (EX: Currently, the Sig costs 81 Sp. When it gets raised to 111 Sp, I could boost the 'Free Movement' up to a 'Free Feint', instead, because I'd have 30-SP per-Random-Effect to spend, instead of only 20-SP per.)

That being said, some effects (like the Amethyst Cross, mentioned earlier) would become available once reaching certain SP-Thresholds for the Sig. So, would I be able to add Additional Random-Effects to the Sig, after it gets approved? (IE: For now, Amethyst Cross wouldn't appear at all in the Random-Effect List. However, once this Sig becomes 141-SP [which gives me 40-Sp per-Effect], someday in the future, would I be able to add Amethyst Cross to my Random-Effect List?)


ANOTHER QUESTION

I'm gunna shoot for another Trigger-Sig... this time, basing it off of the "Jewel Cross" Sig, outlined above. Would the following Trigger be allowed:

[[b]Double Dip[/b]] -- [20 SP] -- [[u]1 CD[/u]]
[Warrior Chooses a Number (Based on the Number of Random-Possibilities 'Jewel Cross' has))]
[[b]Trigger[/b]: The next time 'Jewel Cross' lands on the Number Chosen, it is immediately re-randmoized. Only the results of the second number are kept (even if they remain the same)]


EX: Let's say I used 'Jewel Cross' as it is now (with 3 Effects).

If I used this Sig before Jewel Cross, I could pick a number 1-3. Let's pretend I pick 1.

When a mod (or whoever) randomizes the outcome of 'Jewel Cross', IF[b] the Result is 1, then that outcome is nixed and it is re-randomized for a New Outcome (obviously, this only happens once). If the Result is not 1, then the Trigger remains in wait-mode until the next time I use 'Jewel Cross'.




Aaaand that's all for today.

If my application of 'Random' is totally wrong, then ban me sorry about that, and just tell me how to fix it.

Also, for the Nerf on 'Jewel Cross' -- Since the Lv0-4 SP-Cap for a single Sig is 60, I added that Nerf to expand the Sig's SP-Cap to 90. If I did that wrong, let me know as well.

Thanks for the time -- and I didn't intend for this post to turn out so long... sorry, lol.

Right then, let's tackle these as they come. First off, awesome ideas, we as staff(and mods) love when people come up with inventive and clever ways to use signatures. So ya know, kudos to you on this.

Jewel Cross
Yes, you can make a signature like this. The random pool was made so that there is no limit to how many signature choices can be added to the roll. So if you want to have 10 or even 20 different possible effects that could happen on use. Hey, you can. Just know, the roll is done by the mod, and cannot be changed(more on that later).

Now the effects listed:
Topaz Cross of Life
It would heal flat 15HP to whatever target chosen, though the wearer would be the one who picks the target. Unless you specified it as heals only the wearer. There is no random target effect currently(nice idea).

Citrine Cross of Balance
Totally a thing, and totally nice to have.

Onyx Cross of the Storm
Imbue Element works only on Null-Element chip attacks, nothing else. Otherwise, yeah this works.


Double Dip
Pure and simple, no, this won't work. The roll for the random effect is done by the mod, it is not something you get control/say in(save what the possible results could be). You can't make a separate signature(or same signature) that changes the result of that roll. Sorry.

Signature Prices and Levels
Alright, now for the big one, that might throw a wrench into your plans.

Signatures have a maximum signature point cost, based on your navi's current level. That cap is as follows:

Navi Level = Max active cap allowed (Max active nerf cap) / max passive cap allowed
0-4 = 60 (90) / 15 (Start)
5-9 = 100 (150) / 20
10-14 = 140 (210) / 25
15-19 = 180 (270) / 30
20-24 = 220 (330) / 35
25-29 = 260 (390) / 40
30-34 = 300 (450) / 45
35-39 = 340 (510) / 50
40-44 = 380 (570) / 55
45-49 = 420 (630) / 60
50-54 = 460 (690) / 65
55+ = 500 (750) / 70 (MAXED)

Broken down, this means that from levels 0 to 4, the largest signature total you can make is 60, or 90 if it's a nerfed signature.(Nerfs can add up to 50% of the total cost to the signature in bonus points). Likewise, the maximum passive cost is 15(this is before the x4 cost), or x3 cost for objects.

What this means to you? The Jeweled Cross signature you designed above. Cannot be made until at least level 5, while it's upgraded version would be level 15+ for 30 passive, and 25+ for the 40 passive costs.

So yeah, it's a great idea, and I highly suggest you keep it in mind and make it in the future. Just letting you know you probably can't make it exactly as is, for a few more levels. But as I said at the start, keep the questions coming, because we love when people come up with clever ideas and uses for the signature system.

Oi, I totally neglected the passive cap xD

In that case, I'll just make the Pendants give a 1-Time-Use Effect (For a Chosen Target, then, since we can't random that up), which activates the turn-after the Pendant is Randomized.

IE:

TURN1 ('Jewel Cross' is used)
-Mod Randomizes-
TURN2 (Target is Chosen and Effect is immediately applied [costing the [i]Object[/i] an Action?])
TURN3 (The Pendant remains equipped until removed/replaced -- but it is drained of its energy. Can be thrown with RageClaw or sumthin, so it's not totally useless, I suppose)

So the Effects will stay the same -- but they'll no longer be passive.
Would this cost an Action from the object, or the User that the Pendant is Equipped to? Or does that simply have to be specified? (Totally Specifying the Object, if so).

Since each effect is no longer Passive, I'd no longer be dumping triple SP per Effect. In turn, I'm gunna most likely just use up a 20~25 Point Pool (to keep the Total Cost under 60 so that I don't have to use the Nerf), which would leave the finished Sig in the 2-TCD Range.


Until I Level-up some more, then, the Skill would look like this:

[[b]Jewel Cross[/b]] -- [1 [color=#BBBBBB](Object HP) + 20 (Equipable) + 25 (Random Pool) = 36 SP]] -- [[u]3 CD[/u]]
[Warrior's Emblem materializes infront of the target of this Sig. The emblem emanates a bright white light while spinning rapidly, slowly shifting its shape into a Cross-Shaped, Jewel-Pendant that gently attaches itself to the target's neck after it stops spinning. Once attached, the white-light bathing the pendant appears to shatter, revealing the material empowering the accessory...]
[PENDANT: 1 Hp + Light + Equipable]
[Can be directed at any Ally/User/Mobile Object. Immobile Objects cannot be targeted]
[The Effects of each Pendant cost 1 Action [i]from the Pendant[/i], and can be applied to any Ally, Object, or Enemy, if the Bearer so pleases]
[The Effects of each Pendant take place the Turn after they are equipped, at any point during that Turn that its Bearer decides]
[Warrior/Allies can only have up to 3 Jewel Pendants equipped at any given time]
[Warrior/Allies can pass a Jewel Pendant back and forth, but it costs a Movement or Take Aim action from each of them (the Passer and the Recipient)]
[Free Movement/Take Aim Actions can be spent to pass a Pendant]
[The Pendant Created is Randomized, as displayed in the Spoilers Below][/color]



Other Effects attached to this Skill will be:
Strengthen (+25) | Decoy | Barrier(25) | Shield(1) | NCP/Folder/Sig Resistance | Take Aim (for 2 Attacks this turn... or is that allowed?) | 0-Damage, Slashing/Nullify, B-Accuracy, Shot Attack

And whatever else my little heart contents.


I've got nothing else on my mind for now, but like I said, I'll most likely be using this thread as a Sandbox for whatever future ideas I get.

Thanks again for all the feedback and support.

Well, took me a bit to read, and re-read what you'd written to really grasp what you were attempting with it. But, I think I've got a grasp(other mods/staff, if I'm wrong correct me). So lets see here...

Quote ()

[Jewel Cross] -- [1 (Object HP) + 20 (Equipable) + 25 (Random Pool) = 36 SP]] -- [3 CD]
[Warrior's Emblem materializes infront of the target of this Sig. The emblem emanates a bright white light while spinning rapidly, slowly shifting its shape into a Cross-Shaped, Jewel-Pendant that gently attaches itself to the target's neck after it stops spinning. Once attached, the white-light bathing the pendant appears to shatter, revealing the material empowering the accessory...]
[PENDANT: 1 Hp + Light + Equipable]
[Can be directed at any Ally/User/Mobile Object. Immobile Objects cannot be targeted]

The signature would have a 1(1hp Object) + light(free) + 20(equipable) + 25(random pool) = 46SP, 2TCD(for every 40 points, it's 1 turn cool down, since that's over 40, it becomes 2TCD)

The target of it can technically be anything you yourself picked, and it's limitations would be mostly fluff/personal choice on registry.

Quote ()

[The Effects of each Pendant cost 1 Action from the Pendant, and can be applied to any Ally, Object, or Enemy, if the Bearer so pleases]

The effect would be triggered as a free action from the current wear.

Quote ()

[The Pendant Created is Randomized, as displayed in the Spoilers Below]
[The Effects of each Pendant take place the Turn after they are equipped, at any point during that Turn that its Bearer decides]

The object would be set up as:
Object: 1HP + trigger(start of next turn): Random effect from pool. It would activate only once, and it would be considered a free action from the bearer(not taking an action itself to use, so like a passive in that regard). It would then do nothing else save be a 1hp object that does nothing else again.

Quote ()

[Warrior/Allies can only have up to 3 Jewel Pendants equipped at any given time]

Technically, to my knowledge there is no limit, save if you personally wanted to make one, so that's fine I think.

Quote ()

[Warrior/Allies can pass a Jewel Pendant back and forth, but it costs a Movement or Take Aim action from each of them (the Passer and the Recipient)]

It would take a movement action from both to exchange the pendant, but as it would do nothing after it's first cast, I personally can't see a point, but yes, a movement action from each(to give and receive).

So there ya go, a full signature, registered as you have it currently, would create a 1hp object, and the mod would roll what effect the gemstone that forms with it, will have. It will then activate the following turn. After which, it becomes a piece of jewelry/an object that might by luck block an attack.(that's probably situational/based on the mod's decision of who mods attacks in that battle).

Quote ()

[The Pendant Created is Randomized, as displayed in the Spoilers Below]

A note on this, you would have to register all the possible effects at time of creation that you wanted it to have. If you want to add more, it would have to wait until you got a Process Upgrade, or an editor to allow you to remake your signature.

Something I thought about while re-reading this:

One of the ideas you posted earlier was essentially a re-roll (double dipping), and it was more or less explained why that would be shut down.... however....

I think there may be a way you could wrangle the idea you wanted there within the current ruleset (please correct me if I'm wrong), BUT it would be costly:

Basically, You could make a second signature that contains all the same random effects as the first, but set it up so that it it acts like a trap trigger from the outset, with the trigger being the creation of one of the objects, potentially designated by number when you set the trap (this is my major concern; most things like this need to be fixed at registration, so you may not be allowed to 'choose' which cross triggers it on setting, the way you want). You could ask that the trigger be the creation of the trigger object, before the effect of the cross is activated, and the effect being the creation of a new cross, randomised in the same way (you might want to, aesthetically, add in a means for it to destroy the triggering cross as well; dealing a point of damage to the triggering object for example, but there'd be no mechanical benefit to doing this, unless it is your aesthetic desire to have a limit on how many crosses an individual can wear at once).

But, like I said, costly and a bit wasteful on points, since it would effectively require you to have two copies of the same signature, one of which would only have a very small chance of triggering at all in response to the first.

Also, it's four a.m., so... if I'm talking absolute nonsense, feel free to ignore me.

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That actually is plausible, from what I can tell. But yeah.... that's a big investment of Sig Points, lol. It's probably something I'll look in to once I get a bigger pool to work with.

In the meantime, though, Warrior's right around the corner from reaching Lv5, (and tbh I almost forgot about this thread until you brought it back up!), so I'm gonna write up a prettier/more comprehensible version of the Gem Cross Sig, and maybe pitch a few more ideas that I thought were a little silly but worth the effort.

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Gem Cross (Same concept, new format)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* This Signature is created assuming Warrior is at least Lv5, with a 20 Passive SP Cap.

* SP Cost: 10 (Object HP) + 20 (Equipable) + (20 * 3) (Random Pool [Passive Effects])]

[[b]Jewel Cross[/b]] -- [90 SP] -- [[u]3 CD[/u]]
[[i]Warrior's Emblem materializes infront of the target of this Sig. The emblem emanates a bright white light while spinning rapidly, slowly shifting its shape into a Cross-Shaped, Jewel-Pendant that gently attaches itself to the target's neck after it stops spinning. Once attached, the white-light bathing the pendant appears to shatter, revealing the material empowering the accessory...[/i]]
[PENDANT: 10 HP (Light + Equipable)]
[A RNG is used to determine the Pendant created, using the list below as reference]
--- (1) Rose Quartz Cross of Mobility
--- (2) Topaz Cross of Life
--- (3) Ruby Cross of Power
--- (4) Emerald Cross of Protection
--- (5) Sapphire Cross of Concentration




This is the Signature that this entire thread is basically about. I didn't really add anything to it, but attempted to simplify it in the most effective way possible.


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Multi-Layered Barrier (Silly concept, but worth a shot)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I know that regular Barriers cannot have Effects imbued into them -- this would obviously be a Planar Barrier. Rather than explaining it before showing it to you, I'll go ahead and show you that concept, then say some words about it:

[[b]Multi-Layer Barrier[/b]] -- [60 SP] -- [[u]2 CD[/u]]
[[i]A thick barrier encompasses Warrior's body; one that cannot be destroyed by a single strike. Only layers of it will fall away at a time.[/i]]
[Creates a 20-HP Planar Barrier. Counter(When Broken): Creates 'Barrier 2']
↳ Barrier2 [Creates a 20-HP Planar Barrier. Counter(When Broken): Creates 'Barrier 3']
--- ↳ Barrier3 [Creates a 20-HP Planar Barrier]


So yeah. I thought about it, then told myself "Now now, don't be daft. That's just silly." Then I thought about it some more and was like "Hey, that is silly. But I want it anyway." And now I find myself here, asking you all about it =D

I formatted it in like... the clearest possible way I knew how to. Basically, when the first barrier breaks, it immediately summons the second barrier (provided I'm standing on Non-Normal Terrain). Likewise, when the second barrier breaks, it immediately summons the third barrier. And then when the third one breaks, Warrior becomes a sitting duck. Think of it.... I guess think of it like Alpha's multi-layered... skin... stuff. Yeah.


Naturally, I'd throw something even sillier into the mix, like changing the panels instantly before summoning the first barrier:

[[b]Multi-Layer Barrier[/b]] -- [70 SP] -- [[u]2 CD[/u]]
[[i]A thick barrier encompasses Warrior's body; one that cannot be destroyed by a single strike. Only layers of it will fall away at a time.[/i]]
[Creates a Solar Panel beneath Warrior]
[Creates a 20-HP Planar Barrier. Counter(When Broken): Creates 'Barrier 2']
↳ Barrier2 [Creates a 20-HP Planar Barrier. Counter(When Broken): Creates 'Barrier 3']
--- ↳ Barrier3 [Creates a 20-HP Planar Barrier]


I think the silliest idea of mine is that I want to make it have a Trap AND a Counter (clearly because I'm afraid of Impact negating my Counter). But I don't think multiple Traps can be active at once (or even sprung from the same source), so I'd only put it on the first Barrier. The end result would be:

[[b]Multi-Layer Barrier[/b]] -- [110 SP] -- [[u]3 CD[/u]]
[[i]A thick barrier encompasses Warrior's body; one that cannot be destroyed by a single strike. Only layers of it will fall away at a time.[/i]]
[Creates a Solar Panel beneath Warrior]
[Creates a 20-HP Planar Barrier. Counter(When Broken): Creates 'Barrier 2'. Trap(Impact Attack): Dodge]
↳ Barrier2 [Creates a 20-HP Planar Barrier. Counter(When Broken): Creates 'Barrier 3']
--- ↳ Barrier3 [Creates a 20-HP Planar Barrier]


So pretty much, if an enemy uses an Impact Attack, Warrior has a slight chance to dodge it before it crushes his barrier and makes him sad.

My main question is: Would this kind of a Defense be allowed? And if so... is there a clearer way of formatting it, or is that method the most clear (or clear enough) for now?

The progressive barrier is actually pretty much ok, I'm sure, though it would work best, I think, simply as a multi-stage trigger

(so, something like: Multi-stage: first (barrier), then, Trigger(on break), (barrier), then Trigger(on break) (Barrier)) etc. Like that.)

If you wanted to put the trap in, you could actually slip the trap function into the multi-stage quite simply, just as another stage between the setting of the first barrier, and the trigger for the next.

Mods correct me if I'm mistaken here,

EDIT: you asked about formatting, so, this is how I would formalise what you're looking at here, personally:

Multi-Layer Barrier:

Multi-Stage: First (Create a single solar panel underfoot), Then (20Hp barrier), Then (Trigger(Barrier Broken) 20Hp Barrier, Then (Trigger(Barrier Broken (20Hp Barrier))

You wouldn't need the trap here, since you can just set them up as triggers on the barrier breaking, and thus they wouldn't risk being negated by impact.

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That sounds like a pretty sweet deal then. Also, it looks way more comprehensible than the way I wrote it, lol. I appreciate the help!


Now, I have another question about something I've been wondering for a while...

[th colspan="1"]Imbue Element[/th]

Imbue Element: 20 (40 if off-elemental) [Allows you to add an element to a Null Element attack. The element must be declared when you register this ability, and can only target a Null Element attack. You cannot use this ability on a Rapid Buster Attack (known as a Buster Shot), but it may be used on any Null-Element offensive or defensive ability. You cannot imbue multiple elements on a single attack. It costs 20 if you are imbuing your element, and costs 40 if it is any other element. You cannot select Null as a choice. Elemental Bonuses do not apply to attacks affected by this effect]

This is considered a 'Buff', so I assume it can also be applied to allies. Now... would I be able to aim this at enemies, as well? =3

[th colspan="1"]For Example[/th]

[[b]Sword of the Great Attack[/b]] - [20 SP] - [[u]1 CD[/u]] [[i]A great and mighty sword shoots an enemy after it runs past them. Spectators are boggled with confusion and unable to respond to what they've just witnessed, so it causes them to become Elec Element, because that's clearly the only logical way of reacting. The shenanigans are upon us![/i]] [Imbues target's next attack with Elec Element. This can be aimed Warrior, an ally, or an enemy.]

EDIT: Additionally, if I use '+20 Strengthen', but don't immediately put it to use, and then on the following turn I use another '+20 Strengthen', could I apply both of them to the same attack this way? Or do the effects of 'Strengthen' expire at the end of the turn?

Reference: The term 'Strengthen' in the Sig Attack Effect List doesn't clarify this. However, in the 'Terrain' Thread, 'Coal Panels' effect states that "Fire Elementals gain +20 Strengthen while on this Terrain each turn, but the effect must be allocated to Fire Element attacks only. As with normal Strengthen, it pools until used". This is what leads me to believe the it can, in fact, be applied to an attack multiple times over the course of two or more turns. Is this correct?

-

I'm not 100% certain on this, so, you'd probably be best to double-check with someone else on the chat, but, I don't believe you can apply Imbue to anything other than your own abilities. If only for the simple fact that it targets itself on an ability, and must be designated specifically by virtue of that, as far as I'm aware, thus, it's not really practically possible to hook it up to anything other than your own abilities, since you don't have control over what others re doing.

Working with allies may, possibly, be a feasible exception, in as much as, if you know what your ally is planning to do exactly, and can act in concert with them, it should be quite doable... but I'm pretty sure applying it to enemies is probably a no-go.... at the very least, I imagine you might be able to -try- tossing an imbue at an enemy target, but I think their behind-the-scenes for combat looks a bit different to players (not a mod, don't know for certain), so it may simply not work. Again, best thing to do would be to drop by the chat and ask someone this one.



Strengthen, however, does add up into a pool, which you are free to use some, all or none of with subsequent valid attacks. It's quite flexible, and is a favourite for using up left-over or excess points of a lot of folks here. Simply ,if a signature gives you 20 strengthen to use, as a part of its effect, you can use it at any time, but if you don't, it waits patiently for you to have a need for it, and if you apply further strengthen to yourself later, without using the first, it simply adds on.

Example:

1) Tess uses her signature "Some Strength" (40 Strengthen)
2) Tess uses her signature "A Punch Lacking Strength" (10 Null) + 30 Strengthen = (40 Null @ FakeTargetA)
3) Tess points and laughs at FakeTargetA.

(10 Strengthen remaining)

Turn 2

1) Tess uses her signature "More Power!" (80 Strengthen)
2) Tess uses her signature "Maximum Power!!" (80 Strengthen)
3) Tess uses her signature "A Punch with Potential" (10Null) + 140 Strengthen = (150Null @ FakeTargetA)

(30 Strengthen remaining)

And so on... please excuse Tess, she's not overly creative, being an example dummy that she is.