(Nerfs) Why is it...
last edited by
That a simple nerf can't be added to something, and serve as nothing more than a means with which to reduce CD. I mean, I understand we don't want 0CD sigs, but why not just cap it a 1TCD?
last edited by
Using a nerf to simply reduce cooldown.......that sounds like a briliant idea. Why haven't the mods mentioned anything like this? That's a great idea, glad you came up with it.
last edited by
I believe it's to keep people form creating high damage, 0CD sigs by simply nerfing themselves a lot.
Of course, that could be countered with a minimum cooldown for each tier of damage.
Of course, that could be countered with a minimum cooldown for each tier of damage.
last edited by
Thx (although I am technically a mod, btw. ;P ) Hm. How about this?
Minumum CD Caps (ie sigs doing relative worth equal to x amount cannot drop below y TCD)
X/Y
60/1
120/2
180/3
240/4
Above 240/CD cannot be reduced (little point to it anyway)
A simple increment of 60 should do, especially given that the nerfs should make up for the lowered CD. Bear in mind that this idea is for sigs specifically nerfing TO DROP CD, not for any other reason. So that hefty 240 sig is STILL USING 240 points to it, but is nerfing by 80 for the sake of a CD drop, and nothing more. That sound reasonable?
Minumum CD Caps (ie sigs doing relative worth equal to x amount cannot drop below y TCD)
X/Y
60/1
120/2
180/3
240/4
Above 240/CD cannot be reduced (little point to it anyway)
A simple increment of 60 should do, especially given that the nerfs should make up for the lowered CD. Bear in mind that this idea is for sigs specifically nerfing TO DROP CD, not for any other reason. So that hefty 240 sig is STILL USING 240 points to it, but is nerfing by 80 for the sake of a CD drop, and nothing more. That sound reasonable?
last edited by
I believe I have spoken with Pally on something to this effect that will solve the overly high cooldown problem. He mentioned something to the effect of passive cooldown reduction sigs. I forget exactly how the mechanics behind them worked or what the total point costs came out to be, but I'm sure Pally would be glad to elaborate once he shows up.
last edited by
I believe Pally was speaking about SigAttks with the Sig Cool effect or something similar, but I cannot be certain. Basically, it would be a seperate SigAttk that only serves to lower the remaining CD of a previously used Sig.
last edited by
Yep. Sig chillers and heatsinks. You can find them in the sig effects list. Quite useful... 
They cost 40 points each (160 if passive).
Basically, you make an Uber sig attack, or multiple useful sig attacks, then make yet another signature that:
Passive Version: Reduces the CD of any (as in, you get to choose) previously used Sig Attack (as in it's cooling down right now) by 1 TCD every turn without using any actions.
(YO! Demonstar! THIS is how you make 0 TCD actives without actually breaking the rules. :P)
Active Version: Reduces the CD of one or more (You still get to choose! Imagine that!) previously used Sig Attacks (that are currently cooling down) by 1 TCD per 40 points at the cost of 1 action. You can literally use one sig with as many as a dozen (or more if you nerf yourself) sig cooldown reducers to instantly reduce another sig's CD.
I would like to note that each use of Sig Chill (for your signatures) or Heatsink (for someone else's signatures) only reduces the CD of A selected sig by 1. So, the more Sig Chills or Heatsinks you have, the more TCD you can make go away. Like damage, however, if you want to cool down multiple sigs, you have to split the effect. How you split the effect is up to you.
There is one proviso: You must wait until the next turn to use a signature that has had its cooldown negated. You cannot use the same sig twice in the same turn.
Yes, this really is allowed. Enjoy.
They cost 40 points each (160 if passive).
Basically, you make an Uber sig attack, or multiple useful sig attacks, then make yet another signature that:
Passive Version: Reduces the CD of any (as in, you get to choose) previously used Sig Attack (as in it's cooling down right now) by 1 TCD every turn without using any actions.
(YO! Demonstar! THIS is how you make 0 TCD actives without actually breaking the rules. :P)
Active Version: Reduces the CD of one or more (You still get to choose! Imagine that!) previously used Sig Attacks (that are currently cooling down) by 1 TCD per 40 points at the cost of 1 action. You can literally use one sig with as many as a dozen (or more if you nerf yourself) sig cooldown reducers to instantly reduce another sig's CD.
I would like to note that each use of Sig Chill (for your signatures) or Heatsink (for someone else's signatures) only reduces the CD of A selected sig by 1. So, the more Sig Chills or Heatsinks you have, the more TCD you can make go away. Like damage, however, if you want to cool down multiple sigs, you have to split the effect. How you split the effect is up to you.
There is one proviso: You must wait until the next turn to use a signature that has had its cooldown negated. You cannot use the same sig twice in the same turn.
Yes, this really is allowed. Enjoy.
last edited by
*ARGHs*
.
..
...
You do get that to make 0 TCD you need a 1tcd sig and a sig chill passive. 40+160=200...
logically a 2 tcd sig costs 80+ 2 passive sig chills= 400.
So constructing a 0 tcd this way instead of just making it a passive costs a fair lot more. You are far better off making any sig a passive than aiming for 0tcd with adding chills.
*ARGHs some more*
EDIT: so that this post isn't just about denying Pally XD
My solution would be to limit the amounts of drawbacks up to half of your current sigs cap, but make them back that they indeed reduce cooldown (unless, you know, you use up the points they give and not just lower your cost).
This means that you can't have 0TCD sigs with only drawbacks (and it also shuts up people who whine about attacks that deal above 2000 dmg and are available on the first level... actually, I get the feeling that I'm alone with that :P)
.
..
...
You do get that to make 0 TCD you need a 1tcd sig and a sig chill passive. 40+160=200...
logically a 2 tcd sig costs 80+ 2 passive sig chills= 400.
So constructing a 0 tcd this way instead of just making it a passive costs a fair lot more. You are far better off making any sig a passive than aiming for 0tcd with adding chills.
*ARGHs some more*
EDIT: so that this post isn't just about denying Pally XD
My solution would be to limit the amounts of drawbacks up to half of your current sigs cap, but make them back that they indeed reduce cooldown (unless, you know, you use up the points they give and not just lower your cost).
This means that you can't have 0TCD sigs with only drawbacks (and it also shuts up people who whine about attacks that deal above 2000 dmg and are available on the first level... actually, I get the feeling that I'm alone with that :P)
last edited by
Well, I was simply suggesting an alternate means with which to use a nerf. I mean, there have been instances like this in other media, where a character basically tears themselves to shreds so they can continue their assault, and while I suppose it is somehow possible to use with the system as it, the result would likely be born of Unnecessarily (imbalanced would be another viable term) high expense and convolution...
last edited by
I think I just bent Knight's mind a bit.
At any rate, I have a mixed response to FZ's last post...
First: All current nerfs add CD so they aren't uber hax.
Second: I'm exploring a new option that Nalrenn inspired (more like invented) by accident during a little misunderstanding... A second set of nerfs that do not add CD, but you pay for them in points instead. So, your sig costs more than normal to use, and might even hurt you a bit when you do use it, but it has a ridiculously low CD, allowing you to spam it.
Also, as an aside, we're looking into setting Nerf Caps.
At any rate, I have a mixed response to FZ's last post...
First: All current nerfs add CD so they aren't uber hax.
Second: I'm exploring a new option that Nalrenn inspired (more like invented) by accident during a little misunderstanding... A second set of nerfs that do not add CD, but you pay for them in points instead. So, your sig costs more than normal to use, and might even hurt you a bit when you do use it, but it has a ridiculously low CD, allowing you to spam it.
Also, as an aside, we're looking into setting Nerf Caps.
last edited by
...........
Paladin, what you just suggested via Nal was roughly the point of the topic: Using nerfs to lower CD, while adding them to the point total.
Example: Haxxor uses OMG Attack, dealing 120 damage. Haxxor also suffers a Buster Crash (80) from the aftershock. CD: 1.
This is what I had in mind. Are we thinking on similar pages?
Paladin, what you just suggested via Nal was roughly the point of the topic: Using nerfs to lower CD, while adding them to the point total.
Example: Haxxor uses OMG Attack, dealing 120 damage. Haxxor also suffers a Buster Crash (80) from the aftershock. CD: 1.
This is what I had in mind. Are we thinking on similar pages?
last edited by
I believe in his version that would be a sig attack that uses 200 cap, but only counts as using 40. Unless thats what you had in mind, in which case disregard my statements as random nonsense. Which it appears to be. So I'll just leave this here for the mathematically inclined.
120 + 80 = 200 Cap to make.
120 - 80 = 40 Cap applied for CD.
120 + 80 = 200 Cap to make.
120 - 80 = 40 Cap applied for CD.
last edited by
Meh....I don't really like the idea of nerfs to enhance power at all as we currently have such a freeform sig system...But if the people want them...
last edited by
Leon hits dead on. That is EXACTLY my proposal. Or Nal's, if he said about the same to Pally. Gotta give credit where credit's due, right? :'D
last edited by
Thw way I read 'use the nerfs to reduce CD if you want':
You pay 160 points for a sig attack, and take a nerf of 80. You can chose to either:
A) Add 80 points to the effect, making the point total 240 for purposes of CD.
B) Leave the effect at 160, but treat it as only 80 points for the CD.
You pay 160 points for a sig attack, and take a nerf of 80. You can chose to either:
A) Add 80 points to the effect, making the point total 240 for purposes of CD.
B) Leave the effect at 160, but treat it as only 80 points for the CD.
last edited by
Quote ()
Cost Calculation: 120 + (80) = 200 Cap to make.
CD Calculation: 120 + (0) = 120 Cap applied for CD = 3 TCD
Fixed.
And Zolem has it right. (sorta. XD)
You pay for the cap, but take a nerf to reduce the CD equal to the nerf's point gain equivalent.
This isn't how it works yet however. We're still testing the idea so you don't jump in, make sigs, then have to change them if they prove unworkable.