Was thinking about an additional effect for the defensive sig effects (or free stand-alone sig effects), primarily X-hit Shield, HP Barrier, and HP Casing. The idea involves re-purposing the data/energy used for the shield into additional (strengthen) damage.
Shield Purge: Free [As a free action, purge all X-hit shields on user to gain [b]Strengthen[/b] (10dmg per "Hit" left on shield when sig effect is used)]
Barrier Purge: Free [As a free action, purge all HP Barriers on user to gain [b]Strengthen[/b] (50% of HP left on barrier when sig effect is used)]
Casing Purge: Free [As a free action, purge all HP Barriers on user to gain [b]Strengthen[/b] (50% of HP left on casing when sig effect is used)]
I chose to reduce the ratio for sig points per Strengthen received to 2:1, otherwise Strengthen as a stand-alone effect would seem rather useless when it can manifest as a shield until you wish to use it. Suggestions?
Shield/Barrier/Casing Purge
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I still think it's kinda weird you put this here and not the cave, but whatevs. (peruses)
Pretty sure the Free cost is a no-no, as no instances of it in the Sig Effect are entirely independent effects, aka you can't just make a sig out of those effects and expect it to fly (for example, a Shot type sig with Slashing that hits three times...and nothing else), whereas with these, you can theoretically make an infinite number of sigs with just these effects for zero cost. It also makes shield/barrier/casing sigs and chips super versatile in this instance, since for no extra cost they can be sacrificed to become Strengthen sigs/chips as the situation calls. While this in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, that any Navi can do this for nothing beyond a sig registration probably is. Passives in particular become stupidly versatile, since they can be made every turn (the SnowFort series of chips can also apply, since while the defense is destroyed, nothing happens that would stop its regeneration; BubbleWrap doesn't actually apply here despite being in a similar boat, since it's X-hit instead of HP based).
While in the case of most Navis, they won't reach high enough numbers to make a major difference one way or the other, some (and we both have an example of these, even though I know neither of us would try to take advantage of it) are more than capable of making powerful defenses that can take full advantage of these effects. So, end of story, as-is it's a big helping of nope.
...What, you thought that was the end of what I was going to say? You saw that the post didn't end right here? Well, expletive. Anyway, if this was going to be an actual effect, it absolutely cannot have no point cost. Making some chips and sigs more versatile than originally intended means it can't really be a 10 point cheapie either, since that's a pretty strong effect in of itself. And yet, if it's too much, it loses any reason to exist. Hmm...I'd say bare minimum of 40, honestly. Maybe even more, because versatility is a pretty strong effect. But that can be discussed if and when people show interest in these effects.
As for it being a free action, that can probably stay, since in a way you are nerfing yourself by doing it by dropping your defense for the extra power. Making it take an action goes a long way towards rendering it pointless, as well, since then there's little incentive to use it over just making a Strengthen sig. So it probably needs that much, at least.
TL;DR - Needs work if people want it to come to pass, but I don't think it's unsalvageable if it's wanted.
Pretty sure the Free cost is a no-no, as no instances of it in the Sig Effect are entirely independent effects, aka you can't just make a sig out of those effects and expect it to fly (for example, a Shot type sig with Slashing that hits three times...and nothing else), whereas with these, you can theoretically make an infinite number of sigs with just these effects for zero cost. It also makes shield/barrier/casing sigs and chips super versatile in this instance, since for no extra cost they can be sacrificed to become Strengthen sigs/chips as the situation calls. While this in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, that any Navi can do this for nothing beyond a sig registration probably is. Passives in particular become stupidly versatile, since they can be made every turn (the SnowFort series of chips can also apply, since while the defense is destroyed, nothing happens that would stop its regeneration; BubbleWrap doesn't actually apply here despite being in a similar boat, since it's X-hit instead of HP based).
While in the case of most Navis, they won't reach high enough numbers to make a major difference one way or the other, some (and we both have an example of these, even though I know neither of us would try to take advantage of it) are more than capable of making powerful defenses that can take full advantage of these effects. So, end of story, as-is it's a big helping of nope.
...What, you thought that was the end of what I was going to say? You saw that the post didn't end right here? Well, expletive. Anyway, if this was going to be an actual effect, it absolutely cannot have no point cost. Making some chips and sigs more versatile than originally intended means it can't really be a 10 point cheapie either, since that's a pretty strong effect in of itself. And yet, if it's too much, it loses any reason to exist. Hmm...I'd say bare minimum of 40, honestly. Maybe even more, because versatility is a pretty strong effect. But that can be discussed if and when people show interest in these effects.
As for it being a free action, that can probably stay, since in a way you are nerfing yourself by doing it by dropping your defense for the extra power. Making it take an action goes a long way towards rendering it pointless, as well, since then there's little incentive to use it over just making a Strengthen sig. So it probably needs that much, at least.
TL;DR - Needs work if people want it to come to pass, but I don't think it's unsalvageable if it's wanted.
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Then I would suggest the "Purge" effect only being an additional ability given to the X-hit Shield, HP Barrier, and HP Casing effects. "As a free action, you can "purge" this effect to gain Strengthen (*add appropriate ratio here*)" This would restrict its usage to only the effect you purchased.
If we wanted to make it where you could go "50/50" instead of going full defense (shield/casing/barrier) or full attack (Strengthen), and make a separate purge-able shield/casing/barrier effect that's double the cost of its non-purge-able counterparts. Jury's still out on the name of said effects.
As for chips, especially those that passively generate defenses, one could add a caveat that the purge causes the battlechip to expire; you'd have to activate another chip for it to be used.
If we wanted to make it where you could go "50/50" instead of going full defense (shield/casing/barrier) or full attack (Strengthen), and make a separate purge-able shield/casing/barrier effect that's double the cost of its non-purge-able counterparts. Jury's still out on the name of said effects.
Quote (example)
X-hit Shield/Booster: 40 (per hit nullified) [Generates a solid-armor Shield that blocks one hit regardless of power. Break attacks count as two hits against X-Hit Shields, and may break through to deal full damage if it reduces the Shield's X-Hit value past zero. Other forms of defense nullification do not work on Shields. As a free action, purge this shield to gain Strengthen (20dmg per "Hit" left on shield when sig effect is used)]
HP Barrier/Booster: 2:1 ratio; 20 HP Minimum [Generates an energy-based Barrier defense that absorbs a certain amount of damage before dissipating. Northwind instantly destroys HP Barriers, but does not break through to deal damage. Impact deals double damage to HP Barriers, and may break through to deal damage if it reduces the Barrier's HP value to Zero. If more Impact damage is dealt than the health of the barrier, the overspill is NOT blocked, and the leftover hits the navi. As a free action, purge this Barrier to gain Strengthen (1dmg per HP left on barrier when sig effect is used)]
As for chips, especially those that passively generate defenses, one could add a caveat that the purge causes the battlechip to expire; you'd have to activate another chip for it to be used.
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Perhaps unsurprisingly, my leaning in regards to this suggestion goes in the other direction to Mc.
I like the idea, but my first consideration is that players can already build something similar to this effect with a signature if they so choose. Add to that the fact that players can already choose of their own free will to discard or purge their defences if they want, and we're left at a point where the reality is:
- Players can do this, more or less, with an additional signature, but doing so would cost double the points, since they'd be paying for the defences, AND for the strengthen. So the proposal asking for something for nothing on that score.
- Players doing this via other means would need, also, to expend an extra action -somewhere- along the way, which this effect would also remove the need for.
My personal feeling, then, is that having it as an extra effect available as a free action is actually the more problematic aspect. I feel that, if the player had to spend an action to convert the defence into strength, then it wouldn't need to cost any more than the defences themselves currently do. Like this though, it would completely supplant the defences themselves... though then it simply becomes an upgrade to the defence effects we have, rather than something new (since it would completely supplant them in terms of function).
One way or the other, the player must pay more in -Some- way, whether that's investment cost, or in time/actions.
In terms of chips that generate defences, the easy suggestion is that this apply only to the signature defence that it's purchased with, so, not applicable to chip defences at all... but that would also limit its versatility, and I can understand the desire to make, for example, a 'break ranks' type signature, that is used to immediately shed all defences, regardless of source, to switch to sudden offence, and that sort of thing... so limiting it in that way wouldn't be something I'd like, particularly.
To respond to Mc, I don't think making the activation of the effect need an action would render it pointless. Yes you could make a strengthen signature to use, but that takes a pint cost of its own, has a fixed magnitude and a cooldown... this would be more flexible and more variable based on the situation you were in.
Options that I see as most viable are:
-As an upgrade to existing signature defence option, no additional cost, but requires an action to activate at any point. Like this it would be dependent upon the defence that it originally came with, though would likely affect all defences at the time of activation. This would make it a better choice over making separate strengthen signatures if your concern was being efficient with points. Could be used situationally to capitalise on a large amount of defence conversion form other stacking sources, however has a balancing weakness in that it would be contingent upon the defence that it came with remaining intact until the effect is used.
-As an immediate stand-alone signature effect with a moderate nominal cost (40 points or so, at a guess, maybe more). Like this it would be useless on its own, and pointless if taken with a defence signature unless gated behind a trigger, but need not be dependent on any particular defence. As such can be used to convert all defences regardless of source, when the effect activates. Could be built into complex signatures more easily and effectively in this manner, while still maintaining its variable nature. Would take no action save being a part of the signature it was built into (and could easily be gated with triggers and delays if desired).
-Lurch's example above, as a more expensive stand-alone variant of each of our existing signature defences. As a free action, in this case, and usable completely at the player's discretion, but by definition affecting only the defence that it is purchased as, and no others. This seems safer, I know, but also less flexible, so I'd actually rather see one of the other options, since they would be more versatile overall.
-Lurch's example, but allowing the effect to purge -ALL- defences on the target at the time of activation as well. Also viable, but as with other suggestions, the effect, and the ability to use it, would need to be contingent upon the parent defence it comes with. you could save points by making a weak one, and planning to cash out a handful of other much stronger defences at the same time, but run the risk of the weak defence getting crushed before you can, or invest more heavily in a stronger one, with the intention that it last longer, or be a safer bet for sticking around as long as you need.
I admit... I actually like the second option the most, since it allows for the making of complex and complicated signatures, which I'm very fond of.
I like the idea, but my first consideration is that players can already build something similar to this effect with a signature if they so choose. Add to that the fact that players can already choose of their own free will to discard or purge their defences if they want, and we're left at a point where the reality is:
- Players can do this, more or less, with an additional signature, but doing so would cost double the points, since they'd be paying for the defences, AND for the strengthen. So the proposal asking for something for nothing on that score.
- Players doing this via other means would need, also, to expend an extra action -somewhere- along the way, which this effect would also remove the need for.
My personal feeling, then, is that having it as an extra effect available as a free action is actually the more problematic aspect. I feel that, if the player had to spend an action to convert the defence into strength, then it wouldn't need to cost any more than the defences themselves currently do. Like this though, it would completely supplant the defences themselves... though then it simply becomes an upgrade to the defence effects we have, rather than something new (since it would completely supplant them in terms of function).
One way or the other, the player must pay more in -Some- way, whether that's investment cost, or in time/actions.
In terms of chips that generate defences, the easy suggestion is that this apply only to the signature defence that it's purchased with, so, not applicable to chip defences at all... but that would also limit its versatility, and I can understand the desire to make, for example, a 'break ranks' type signature, that is used to immediately shed all defences, regardless of source, to switch to sudden offence, and that sort of thing... so limiting it in that way wouldn't be something I'd like, particularly.
To respond to Mc, I don't think making the activation of the effect need an action would render it pointless. Yes you could make a strengthen signature to use, but that takes a pint cost of its own, has a fixed magnitude and a cooldown... this would be more flexible and more variable based on the situation you were in.
Options that I see as most viable are:
-As an upgrade to existing signature defence option, no additional cost, but requires an action to activate at any point. Like this it would be dependent upon the defence that it originally came with, though would likely affect all defences at the time of activation. This would make it a better choice over making separate strengthen signatures if your concern was being efficient with points. Could be used situationally to capitalise on a large amount of defence conversion form other stacking sources, however has a balancing weakness in that it would be contingent upon the defence that it came with remaining intact until the effect is used.
-As an immediate stand-alone signature effect with a moderate nominal cost (40 points or so, at a guess, maybe more). Like this it would be useless on its own, and pointless if taken with a defence signature unless gated behind a trigger, but need not be dependent on any particular defence. As such can be used to convert all defences regardless of source, when the effect activates. Could be built into complex signatures more easily and effectively in this manner, while still maintaining its variable nature. Would take no action save being a part of the signature it was built into (and could easily be gated with triggers and delays if desired).
-Lurch's example above, as a more expensive stand-alone variant of each of our existing signature defences. As a free action, in this case, and usable completely at the player's discretion, but by definition affecting only the defence that it is purchased as, and no others. This seems safer, I know, but also less flexible, so I'd actually rather see one of the other options, since they would be more versatile overall.
-Lurch's example, but allowing the effect to purge -ALL- defences on the target at the time of activation as well. Also viable, but as with other suggestions, the effect, and the ability to use it, would need to be contingent upon the parent defence it comes with. you could save points by making a weak one, and planning to cash out a handful of other much stronger defences at the same time, but run the risk of the weak defence getting crushed before you can, or invest more heavily in a stronger one, with the intention that it last longer, or be a safer bet for sticking around as long as you need.
I admit... I actually like the second option the most, since it allows for the making of complex and complicated signatures, which I'm very fond of.
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That said... it's not actually a bad idea, really.
If, instead of making in an extra or improved sig effect, it was posed as a purchasable custom part, that would work for an action activation, like shield or others, and could be used to purge defences in exchange for equivalent value of strengthen, that might actually give us the best of all cases in terms of usefulness and balance.
If, instead of making in an extra or improved sig effect, it was posed as a purchasable custom part, that would work for an action activation, like shield or others, and could be used to purge defences in exchange for equivalent value of strengthen, that might actually give us the best of all cases in terms of usefulness and balance.